If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
Wait you a second, are you saying industries worth that amount are not capable of influencing policies? Really?
I would say your issue is naivety Yurt.
I have said what my suspicions are, have backed it up with facts that I believe support the suspicions...all you have come back with is misrepresentation, mockery and invective.
Sad that you have nothing better to offer. I am not buying your white and black world theory.
Again If it's about money Why is the EU largest arms exporter not out like a shot selling arms to Ukraine ?
Francie, your suspicions are not facts, they are conspiracies rattling around in your birdbox.
A link to a list of defence companies falls well short of "evidence" for your grand conspiracy by any standard, and I'm even dissapointed in you that you would even try to get that past any poster as anything resembling "evidence". You know better than that (or do you?)
You're even failing to name names, and giving examples of how this force is "always driving conflict", because you know the further you plough this furrow, the more embarassing it gets for you.
I'll say it again: this is undergraduate, run-of-the-mill, Junior-B hurling, Chomsky-lite, boilerplate anti-everything, zero evidence sh*te.
You'll curl up and call this invective, but what you're really dealing with is someone trying to give you a hint that you've lost the run of yourself with this nonsense.
If Irish troops crossed the border anytime over the Last 50 + years they would have been massacred and would have received no help from anyone.
There is a disturbance in...THE FORCE
🤣
It's actually came as a surprise to many outside of Ireland we have little or no military capability offshore,no long range patrol aircraft or even frigates/Destroyers to protect our waters and undersea Cables.
We need to spend and start spending soon and invest in the right equipment and assets across the board
Is there any evidence of this "agreement", I would be surprised if any diplomatic agreement between the two nations spells defence in the american style.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-ireland-sign-historic-defence-agreement
MOU seems to be the only military agreement, nothing about defence of either nation mentioned.
Anglo Irish Treaty has military provisions, nothing about defence agreements.
Like us the Germans have a different approach.
Again. I didn't say my suspicions are a fact.
Read carefully, My suspicions are based on the fact that key members of NATO are also where the biggest arms manufacturers are.
I said it was my opinion and you are free to disagree.
You disagree - fine. I don't subscribe to your black and white/good v bad simplistic world view.
But the Huge arms industry implements policy does it not ? So Germany wont sell weapons even though The arms Manufacturers have huge sway. almost like they don't have any sway at all.
Different approach, there Balls are in a hand and he's squeezing, hence the refusals to send military support ,the infamous maraders vehicles that ukraine offered to buy ,scholtz blocked it ,but guess what he was trying to flog them elsewhere,and now they are saying it could be 2023 or later before they will send equipment to Ukraine
Corporations will have different levels of influence in different countries and with different governments.
Is it time to join Nato?
No and will never be, you just become a nuke magnet to the Russian and the Chinese missiles
If the Brits stay away, no one else will be interested in invading the ROI
So we have gone from the Arms industry pulling the strings. To caveats about this and that. Schrodinger's industrial complex it seems. 🤔
We are already a target.
If Putin or ping decided to start lobbing nukes,it's not like Russia is known for any kind of accuracy when it comes to their weapons
The reality of the world as we know it xxxxl...some corporations have more influence in Ireland for instance than others. Apple or Intel...why...well again, follow the money.
The Germans have influences on them and that is why they have a different policy.
Hold your horses, On your Force theory, you (directly) said your suspicions were backed by facts.
When challenged as to where these facts were, you now double-back and say "I didn't say my suspicions are a fact".
I feel like I've walked into Francie's hall of mirrors. Which is it?
But apple and Intel would not be lobbying us to supply weapons to Ukraine. Unlike the Arms industry Apparently.
MORE shite
I never claimed my suspicions were fact...suspicions are not facts until proven Yurt...do you understand that bit?
Then I said, my suspicions were based on the fact (a separate fact, do you get the concept?) that the biggest arms manufacturers in the world are in the major NATO powers.
That is totally different to sayin my suspicion (which is based on (you understand 'are based on'?) are facts.
You are free to disagree with my suspicion, you are NOT free to disagree with the FACT that the biggest arms manufacturers are based in the most powerful countries in NATO.
Jaysus, getting ridiculous now.
Never said they were xxxxxl, they will lobby for their interests to be protected though. What makes you think the arms industry wouldn't in the country's they are based in?
But we have proven In Germany they are probably lobbying but Gov says no. So they either pull the stings or they don't following the money like. 🤑
😁 Some governments cannot be influenced because they have bigger concerns?
See this comment:
"Germany has a longstanding policy of restraint when it comes to military conflict of all sorts and weapons export is seen as fuelling conflict rather than reducing conflict," says Thomas Kleine-Brockhoff from the German Marshall Fund. "This longstanding policy says that Germany does not export arms into conflict zones.
Germany has departed from that principle, to arm Peshmerga fighters battling IS in Northern Iraq. But the situation in Ukraine is different, he says. The reason is history - the Nazi killings of millions of people in Ukraine and Russia.
"To export arms into the bloodlands that Germany helped to create, to supply one part of the bloodlands with arms… against the other part of the bloodlands… is an anathema in the German political debate."
Let me ask you, could the same be said of the other principal members of NATO, that they will have a moral code about who they supply?
So your suspicions are backed by facts, but your suspicions themselves are not facts.
😂
'backed'
That's not how you spell 'based'.
A 'suspicion' is not a fact Yurt.
Try this elementary lesson, 'The officer had suspicions that the man had killed his wife based on the fact that he had her handbag in his car'.
Now, is it a 'fact' that the man killed his wife?
Take as much time as you need.
😂 😂
@FrancieBrady
FYI, your post from 8:50 pm
"I have said what my suspicions are, have backed it up with facts..."
I am quoting you word for word
Ok I accept this but the critical factor is response to a cyberattack.
This is still an emerging area but a few Nato countries have indicated that they will consider a significant cyber attack to be such that they will respond with force. A position Nato also holds.
Hostile Russian cyber operations could also qualify as unlawful uses of force in violation of Article 2(4) of the UN Charter and customary international law (Tallinn Manual 2.0, rule 68). Cyber operations that cause significant physical damage or death targeting the United States or its NATO allies would be unlawful on this basis. Since such operations are unlikely, the question is whether non-destructive or non-injurious Russian cyber operations could nevertheless qualify as uses of force. It is important to caution that the qualification of a hostile cyber operation as a use of force simply means it is an internationally wrongful act. Whether a State may respond with its own use of force is a question of self-defense, discussed below.
States are increasingly taking the position that cyber operations may amount to uses of force based upon their “scale and effects” (see, e.g., statements in the 2021 GGE Compendium), a position that NATO has also taken. Those States that have spoken to the issue typically look at an array of factors when determining whether the requisite threshold of scale and effects has been reached.
What will neutral Ireland's position be if it were hit by a significant state sponsored cyber attack?
Now you are removing words that don't support you. PATHETIC.
The full sentence:
I have said what my suspicions are, have backed it up with facts that I believe support the suspicions.
The 'facts' being that the biggest arms suppliers are in the most powerful country's in Europe.(typo) should have read NATO
That are not supplying Ukraine.
I corrected the typo in that post, it should have said NATO, not 'Europe'.
BTW, Germany is supplying Ukraine with some weapons.
