If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
Aahahah. Poor Francie.
*YOU* explicitly brought up excercises, not me. Swallow it, it belongs to you.
I asked you for detail on "gameplaying".
Francie: NATO excercises near Russia.
Me: Eh Francie, NATO never did excercises anywhere near Russia prior to 2014 when they invaded Ukraine and started buzzing Baltic states airspace.
Francie: Here's a map of NATO "actions" prior to 2014
Me: Wakey wakey Francie, those are NATO treaty accessions, not excercises.
Francie: "Oh I actually mean *geopolitical* 'gameplaying', not military excercises"
You are thoroughly dishonest, and you've made a mug of yourself in this exchange.
As part of the general gameplaying Yurt. If you misunderstood, consider it clarified. Now go and try wind somebody else up.
Like I said, you made a mug of yourself.
You were asked for detail on your foggy notion of "gameplaying" and you went straight for NATO excercises near Russia. When it was pointed out to you there were no such excercises near Russia prior to them invading a sovereign state and threatening Baltic States' airspace, you reverted back to the nonsense opaque "general gameplaying" you started out with.
Like I said, it's boilerplate Chomsky-lite sh*te.
I sent you a long google list of war games Yurt. You thought I was only talking about excercises, I wasn't. Clarified again.
You don't like Choamsky, never read him myself, but many do like him, get over that as well. You don't OWN the discussion
When did Ukraine join NATO ? If they had been in NATO none of this would be happening.
Wer vulnerable because we live in a fairy world where we think we are immune to any and all acts of aggression, that these things only happen to other countries.
In the over all scheme of things we would be far better off in NATO than not, it's real tangible defense and guaranteed safety.
I'm not letting you off the hook with that one Francie. I asked you for what you meant by "gameplaying" and you came back with military excercises as NATO's original sin. What do you think military defence treaties are actually for? Should armies be in their barracks playing FIFA all day or something?
Don't bother with correcting me. You're the one that walked yourself into displaying you don't know what you're on about. There was no misunderstanding of your posts.
I have since talked about NATO expansion as part of the gameplaying and clarified what you misunderstood.
xxxxxxl asks why was Ukraine not in NATO, there is the prime example of gameplaying with peoples lives imo. They left Ukraine isolated to keep conflict/tension going. Ukraine in NATO and this wouldn't be happening as xxxxl says.
Ask yourself, who loses if there is no conflict, weapons or arms needed in the world?
I misunderstood nothing. You were asked for what you meant by "gameplaying" and like a hot snot went immediately for NATO excercises and "tension making".
You were given a history lesson on the fact NATO never conducted excercises near Russia prior to 2014 the Crimea invasion and Russia threatening the Baltic 3's airspace (I know you were ignorant of this so don't even try).
Then you scrambled back to "general gameplaying". We'll all just have to guess what that actually means. Chomsky-lite poppycock and you can't even take the L gracefully.
I posted it as an example and clarified when you misunderstood.
If you can't accept that...nothing I can do.
Russia signed a Deal In regards to Ukraine and Nuclear weapons. Wager they regret handing them over. Russia complains about NATO expansion While trying to expand its Boarder with NATO can't make it up.
Two of them at it.
Nobody who read this exchange misunderstood a thing. You made a mug of yourself.
"gameplaying" will apparently have to be filed under an animal noise you make when you're caught out for being a low-knowledge poster.
At what only one Engaged in a War in a Sovereign nation. One is a defensive alliance of nations the other is not. Russia managed to Increase its NATO border massively. Sweden and Finland. They had no intention of joining NATO in the Status Quo. Someones actions lead to that and that's not NATO's.
Yurt you have been telling people with a different opinion they are mugs since the start of the thread.
Like some self appointed oracle on speed, you value your opinion too highly.
I clarified, get over it.
Putinversteher. Weren't you here a few short days ago trying to make out that Sinn Fein doesn't have a Russia problem? They blatantly do, and you're evidence of it.
You're the first person I've told they've made a mug of themselves. A very special, if ignominious accolade. Congratulations, you've earned it.
Yawn....anyone with a different opinion is a Putinversteher/Choamskylite or whatever demeaning invective you can come up with.
I'm having a nice evening. Get back to me tomorrow when you calm down
Francie, my pulse didn't go up one bit dealing with you. You're Putinversteher antics are plain to see and I'm comfortable with labelling you that.
You fly the SF flag loud and proud day-in day-out in this forum, and you have the conceit to think that classic boilerplate and to-template letting Putin off-the-hook won't be picked up on, because in your world view "NATO simply must be as bad as him". That's the long and the short of it, and the more you persist with that a-historical guff, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself.
Yurt, I have never let Putin off a hook and have said what he has done is worse than what NATO have done,
But the fact is Putin and several of the NATO alliance need one another. They feast and profit on conflict.
No conflict in the world, who loses? Follow the money, it is as vulgar and as simple as that and I want no part of that
And what benefits will Ireland provide to NATO? The US is already using Shannon, but that would have been far more useful in the 50's. NATO already has all the observation facilities they need, but a few radar stations would likely have been setup if Ireland had been a member initially.
As for now Ireland has nothing to offer, there is no vast supply of young men, no useful military capabilities, no particularly useful geographical location.
Most useful thing Ireland can be is a theoretical neutral negotiation partner.
Hey military service may reduce the skanger problem 🤣
Eh? Ukraine's very problem was that they weren't in NATO.
Thank god the Baltic states are.
You read the multiple articles about the reason Ukraine are not in NATO.
You have to read a long long long time to see concern for the people of Ukraine to enter the geopolitical thinking of NATO chiefs and Western leaders. Their interests come first.
Have a read and see can you find it as a priority here:
All organisations care more about their members then non-members. All organisations support expansion only if they think it will bring benefit to their existing members. This is not surprising - NATO is not a charity.
I have no idea what your point is though. I don't think Ireland has any particular need to join NATO, quite clearly the Eastern European countries desire and need a defence pact as they are bordering an aggressive, dictatorial and expansionist power.
Thankfully, we in the EU are letting them in. don't you agree that is a good idea?
I agree, different strokes for different folks.
I was responding to the notion that there is no geopolitical game playing going on by Ukraine being left isolated. There clearly is. Ukraine is not in NATO but other similar states are. I can see why Ukraine would be angry about that, it has cost them very dear.
If the welfare of people was the primary consideration they would have been in NATO long ago is the point.
Fully support their bid.
Invasion is your fantasy Francie.
Cyber warfare. hybrid warfare, espionage, etc, etc, etc - lets ignore all of these threats and focus instead on your fantasy.
I have no issues with modernising our infrastructure and systems to prevent that Bob and working with other governments re; intelligence and prevention.
