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Child Item

12 year old daughter / unmonitored internet access

minikin

I just found out yesterday my daughter has a TikTok account, using her full name - she contacted me yesterday as she had received a permanent ban. I asked her if I could see some of the videos she had uploaded - they seemed innocuous enough - just herself and some friends dancing… but then I noticed the soundtrack: references to ‘dumb n*****s, f*****g, and s*****g d**k’!

Now I know I’m an older parent, as is her mam - whom she lives 95% of the time with - but since when is this acceptable?

I understand she is getting a new phone later today, I’ve asked in the past for google family to be set up and offered to co-admin it but this was refused by her mother who sees it as me trying to interfere in their lives. I mentioned yesterday that I’d like there to be full time monitoring of what she’s exposed to… was shot down in flames.

I’m absolutely disgusted at what I’ve seen and the potential longterm reputational harm attaching to it (this stuff never goes away once uploaded) never mind the potential for contact from adults on an unmoderated adult platform.

Any tips / advice for a powerless dad?

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Baybay

There are genres of music where language such as you’ve mentioned is usual. The lyrics have been around a while & many people buy, stream & otherwise enjoy the accompanying music. I’m not sure how exactly her access could be blocked as it’s very commonplace although some broadcasters use beeps & blurs in certain circumstances.

Maybe explain to her why you’re shocked at the lyrics, why you find them disrespectful or unsuitable for her to listen to or to use & find out about her interest in the music.

Is the language content of the backing track to which they are dancing the reason why your daughter received a permanent ban?

minikin

Thanks for response, I understand her last video was of them (herself and friend) pretending to drink wine and referring to themselves as bad bitches. I understand the backing tracks are selected on TikTok and you shoot the video to play under it.

I suspect some other parent of a friend of hers might have seen what they were up to and reported account as they’re clearly not old enough to be on TikTok and the messages they’re parroting are completely unacceptable / mysoginistic.

We were raised to have respect for ourselves… what the feck is going on in society that this self-degradation is considered empowering for young women???

She is the loveliest kid imaginable, breaking my heart to see her being led like a lamb to the slaughter because her mother is too busy / careless / blind to the harm this online world can do.

Pawwed Rig

Realistically without your ex on board nothing will change here. You need a coordinated approach so unless you can have a united front your child will keep at it

minikin

Thanks P, yeah it’s a tough situation, I appealed for a joint approach on it yesterday without any joy.

How far to push the issue in order to protect the young’un? Stuff like this makes me think my years of diplomacy are being thrown back in my face.

I’m now a parent who can be ignored and unheeded.

gzoladz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058254723/12-year-old-daughter-unmonitored-internet-access

I have a daughter at the same age and have to manage similar challenges. Although it is not easy, the number 1 rule is that my wife and I are 100% aligned with the strategy. And if we weren't we would still act as if we were in front of our kids.

From what you wrote it looks like the dynamic you are facing is you having to manage 2 pre-teens, as opposed to 2 adults managing 1 pre-teen. Easier said than done but perhaps a first step would be a 121 conversation with your daughter's mother to discuss options and see what she proposes.

We then try to keep rules simple (1: Guidence/Education; 2: "Policing/Enforcement"):

At 12 they start seeing much more of the world than what they have seen so far...for everything they experience we don't like there are 2 options: either we/she can do something (realistic) about it, or we/she can't. When we/she can't, we work with her to manage it. It is impossible to stop anyone listening to bad language, it's everywhere! So she knows she should not use it, in particular in some settings (this extends to stuff shared online).
Whe she got her phone, we signed a contract with her clearly outlining roles and responsibilities of the 2 sides towards each other in relation to phone usage (parents-daughter contract). That includes Google Family, what is a fantastic resource, and our right to check her phone at any time. The breach of those rules will lead to the phone getting removed from her.

When we were kids, playing on the street was when you could get away with everything. It was one of the only moments when neither your parents/relatives nor educators were watching you. Unmonitored online live for kids is like playing on the street, with the difference that back in the day we were just "down the road" and your parents very much knew the potential dangers out there. Online there are no limits, anyone can get in touch with your kids and your kids can get into much more trouble than us back in the day.

I don't see monitoring a 12 y/o phone activity as interfering in anyone's lives. It is the responsibility of any parent with an interest in his kids saftey and education.

minikin

Thanks gzoladz, very helpful post.

SuperBowserWorld

Yep, it's a minefield that we've created and allow our kids to run in.

It's **** nuts that parents think unrestricted internet access for kids is ok. And it's a tidal wave, suddenly your kid is strange if they don't have a smart phone etc etc etc

I think as a culture and society we have failed hard here.

And **** the people who think it causes no harm. Hopefully their kids don't get anorexia or other severe mental health issues or attack or rape someone and record it some social network for likes. Also, don't get lost down some porn rabbit hole and end up totally confused about what's a normal relationship and what's not. It goes on and on. New craziness being created each day.

The government doesn't care as long as the money comes in from those fucked up internet companies.

olestoepoke

Has your ex watched the Social Dilemma" yet? Self harm, depression and whole list of mental health issues in teens and younger has risen significantly since 2003. This coincides with the rise of all forms of social media, and according to that documentary it is much higher among girls.

My two lads have smart phones, 12 years old and11 years old. I have google family set up so get a notification of what they google etc. All forms of social media are banned until they are 16, I pay the phone bill so my rules. I think your ex partner is irresponsible and reckless giving a 12 year old full access. How to fix this is a tough one, I'd start by asking for a conversation, ask her to watch the Social Dilemma doc, see if it changes her mind.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119344244#Comment_119344244

Important point is she is still the loveliest kid imaginable. Of the right example has been set I think she will be ok.

What ate her friends like? Seem like good kids?

The example her peers set will influence her far more than anything she sees online.

minikin

They seem pretty good by all reports, her best friend moved back to Poland earlier this year so that was tough and probably led to allowing her free reign to her phone (to take her mind off things) - it’s just tough to see happen as I see both her and her mam have become extremely indoorsy and screeny. (Pre-existed Covid) On the 24hrs I get her every two weeks we bring her out walking and talking which she seems to love.

I don’t know if this thread is more about me losing influence or the dangers of the internet but it comes from a place of genuine concern about the situation.

I would suggest she watch that documentary but I’d be told “don’t tell me what to watch, I’ve to do everything here” (her own choice to go it alone)

freddie1970

I just discovered my own 12 year old singing that song as well on tick tok ...I also found out he was looking at porn i felt sick ...

My ex got him a new phone i told her to give it to me first ill set it up with google and restrictions and no she gave it straight to him ..

His eating habits are also destroyed he eats takeaways and chocolate and rubbish all the time ...she also gave him a revolut card with a few hundred on it disaster ..

Because of the mess he has been ordered to live with me but i know have a chilld that is difficult ..I tried telling her and point out issues in her parenting and wouldnt listen to me ..In the end i had to get tulsa involved and now he has to stay with me

Flinty997

Good tip on the education piece documentary. I think that's key.

freddie1970

Im going to get the young fella to watch this week

olestoepoke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119344706#Comment_119344706

Parenting can often be one of the toughest jobs there is. I have a 12year old and we gave him a phone last year and a Revolut card, phone is set up with family google, he does chores during the week to get a small amount of money on his card at the weekend. Walks the dog every evening, empties the bins and a few other handy chores.

Regarding the porn, I think they will watch it regardless of what I do, I cannot control how his friends parents set up their kids phones. He hangs around with his soccer team so there are around 10 of them from the village. It's like being 12 or 13 years ago and finding your older brothers skin mags under his mattress.

Flinty997

The focus on image on social media is also a problem. I see kids kids become very image conscious once they get a smart phone. It's not copying their peers it's copying those clowns on social media. They start living through their phone.

Xidu

My 12 ur old teen has the same thing. They all have the whole class. All on TikTok’s talk about who’s hot. And I was shocked once when I saw the tex conversation with her friend. A lot of words I wouldn’t used in my life.

so I had a very harsh conversation with her. And insisted to take her phone away after 10pm.

another thing is they would call each other n chat about nonsense all night until like 1am and won’t go to sleep.

I am exhausted. Back to my teen days I only had books.

Dial Hard

I think you're conflating two different issues here - unrestricted access to the internet/social media, which is definitely not ideal, and the music on her TikTok, which I think you're overreacting to. I was a MASSIVE gangsta rap fan at that age, but I grew into a perfectly well-adjusted woman with no acquired issues around violence, sex or misogyny.

The phone thing is the real concern here, but as others have said, without your ex on board, you're likely just shouting into the void. As a very part-time parent, there's also a good chance you'll be told to mind your own business (as your ex sees it). Could you look to increase your access at all?

Flinty997

For me it's dumb phones until they are older and smart phones only on my network which is filtered.

It's not perfect and can be circumvented by another kid with a data plan. I've tried two different kid firewalls with mixed success.

But the education piece is important. How you want to be treated is how you treat others. Do nothing you aren't happy to see on youtube or the news. Never take compromised photo. Don't talk to people you don't know. Etc etc.

Flinty997

The music thing is a different issue.

But theres education there too. They need to be told what is culturally and socially appropriate. There is a reason there is filter on music apps.

KaneToad

Lots of songs from other eras are highly sexualised but we never realised because we don't really pay attention.

Chain reaction - Diana Ross (BeeGees)

You make me tremble when your hand moves lower

You taste a little then you swallow slower

Nature has a way of yielding treasure

Pleasure made for you, oh

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348168#Comment_119348168

We had a psychiatrist in at work giving a speech. He said that the day you give your child a smartphone their mental health is permanently damaged. This is true for adults also but more damaging for children.

Education by parents or teachers can’t work because children are extremely effectively educated (behaviour modification) by their smartphones for hours each day. There is nothing a parent or teacher can achieve in a periodic chat to counter that.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348191#Comment_119348191

Yes but kids and young teens for the most part didn't have access to them. Unless they listened to their older siblings music. Hence songs being banned etc.

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348263#Comment_119348263

Concerns about what music is doing to young folk has been around since Jerry Lee Lewis first jumped on his piano. See also death metal, punk, etc. The list is endless. Beyond, as you said, educating her about what's culturally and socially appropriate, I really wouldn't be clutching my pearls about what music she's listening to.

One of my absolute favourite songs when I was that age was Tupac's "Hit Em Up". The lyrics are absolutely appalling but I just thought it was a massively catchy tune.

I still love 90s hip-hop and R&B but would be very aware of what lyrics I sing/rap along to these days, which is where the education piece you mentioned comes in for the likes of the OP's daughter who might not realise that it's not appropriate for white people to use the N word, even when singing along with a song they like.

Flinty997

Like I said though most people wouldn't have ready access to most of that music on main stream media until the internet. Even MTV had a watershed and age restrictions.