The polls say so. If you want to argue with polling numbers, knock yourself out.
If you say so
Another fantastic poll today showing the general public are more behind SF than ever before
Mary Lou's leadership is outstanding compared to the 3 amigos in charge and the recent irish times poll shows this
They don’t, they are telling people one thing and going around industry telling them another
They are depending on the voter to not check into anything. First to not check into their budget plans etc, because if they do they will lose vites
Second to not question how they are going to pay for this magic fairy land they have promised. Again if people look into it they will know it’s just a pile of waffle
Last but not least they are just lying on a lot of stuff they have no intention of implementing, like that TD salary cut which will never happen.
The voter with sense will check into all of this before the election
It is interesting now the online supporters are now attacking the independents, trying to convince people not to vote for them.
The dollar has appreciated almost 15% in the last year against the euro; there is a war in Europe that is materially impacting our energy supply; we are coming out of lockdown.
How do SF actually propose to do something radically different, presuming they want the State to continue to use the mechanisms of the central bank and bond market systems?
That is f**king hilarious
Telling the truth is what hurts SF waffle the most
Heather summed it up best.
https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/1546929050165329922?s=20&t=aEiZkL6-81mfRDac6bLjwg
I have good money on a couple of stories been leaked to the press on TDs over the next few days.
SF took a hammering, been shown up to be totally incompetent if people had forgotten. The online reaction proves it.
There is now a big question over where Sinn Fein go to here following the abject failure of their Motion of No-Confidence.
If the objective was to weaken the government, it completely failed. If the objective was to coerce the opposition, it was a limited success. Most of the opposition parties were on board, but they weren't lining up exactly behind Sinn Fein.
Sinn Fein are weakened by this in the public eye, wasting Dail time on a motion that was soundly defeated, while complaining about legislation being rushed. Have handed a big victory on that issue to FF/FG. If Higgins complains again this summer about rushed legislation, fingers will correctly be pointed at the stupid MONC waste of time.
Now that you have had your ass handed to you on the pensions tax relief and the hidden pay cuts for public servants that SF want to introduce, maybe next time you won't be so quick in challenging the facts (not crap) being posted about SF. Unless you climb down and admit that you were wrong, it will look like you were just defending SF.
They 'wasted' Dáil time.
The government could have avoided extending the speaking time available. They chose not to.
It's just what governments do in this situation. Were the roles reversed a government containing SF would have done exactly the same thing and we'd have had the same trading of insults. Don't mind Gavan most of the time but he's a bit of a drama queen and too much in love with Twitter.
Eh wasting time you say
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1546850086507921408?t=emyBswQBWxe3Z616vd-XVg&s=19
They wasted Govt. time on a spurious confidence vote yesterday while their fellow travelers and trotters banged the same auld drums with faux concern as they read from pieces of paper written by someone else.
Sinn Fein will only be happy when the entire population of Ireland is without a home
Sounds like one of those “I don’t vote for SF, but …” type goons.
As Darragh said today, Sf's arrogance and that of M Lou is indeed something else. Sf's consistent and deliberate objecting of almost every development in Ireland is just something else.
Hubris aught to strike a tone.... alas...
I have to admit, this SF proposal is clever.
Most people haven't a clue about tax relief on pension conts.
SF know they must raise more tax revenue to finance their spending plans.
But they don't want to look like increasing tax rates on typical workers.
So how to do it?
How do you levy more tax on the typical worker, yet manage to convince the typical worker that they won't have to pay more tax? You need to use language like the "rich", "wealthy" or phrases that the proposal targets "gold-plated" pensions (actual SF language)
You propose something arcane, technical, that the typical worker may not know about, and yet which can raise hundreds of millions of euro, as it will be paid by a million workers.
Let's take the principal of a school, a very important job.
I assume wage = 90k, hired before April 1995.
Pension conts = 6.5% of 90k = 5850
ASC = (60,000-34500) @10% = 2,550
ASC = 30,000 @10.5% = 3150
Total conts = 11,550
Tax increase is 2310, or 192.50 per month, from that proposal alone, a significant sum.
"Edit: As I understand it Sinn Fein's pension contribution tax proposal will not affect any public servant on the average public sector salary, or indeed anybody earning 20% above the average public sector salary, but again of course that wouldn't suit the agenda."
This is false (presuming you are referring to the proposal to standard-rate all pension tax relief to 20%, rather than allowing tax relief at 40%)
The 40% income tax rate starts at a crazy low point, 36,800 in 2022.
Any pension conts made above this are eligible for tax relief at the higher rate (40%).
There are tens of thousands of workers earning above 36,800, and making pension contributions.
This includes thousands of nurses, doctors, etc.
Practically every teacher would earn above this point, or the vast majority of them.
Mean earnings across all full-time workers is 49-50k, so the typical worker doing a full-time job and making pension conts will be affected by this.
Here are some data for average annual earnings in 2019:
Public admin and defence = 50,376
Education = 44,745
Most of these workers are in the PS, so most will be affected by this proposal.
Here is more recent data on earnings, 2022 Q1:
PS average earnings = 1,020, so about 52-53k per annum, so the proposal will affect any PS on average earnings
ASC starts at 34,500
The ASC is lower for recent hires, after 2013, correct, these staff are in the new Single PS scheme.
Staff who joined since 2013 pay ASC of 3.33% from 34,500 up to 60k and then 3.5% over 60k.
For staff hired before 2013, the ASC rate is 10% from 34,500 up to 60k, then 10.5% after.
10% of wages above 34,500 is a substantial pension contribution, and bear in mind that is on top of the regular superannuation pension cont.
Then there is the Additional Superannuation Contribution which rises to 10.5%, meaning on some of their income, civil servants are paying 17% pension contributions.
This is indeed true, if you joined the public service pre 2013 and if your salary is in excess of €60k. Of course what you neglected to mention (presumably forgot, didn't know or possibly didn't suit your agenda) is that if you joined post 2013 your ASC’s rise to a max of 3.5% irrespective of what you earn, and on salaries of €60k or less you pay 3.33% on €25.5k.
Edit: As I understand it Sinn Fein's pension contribution tax proposal will not affect any public servant on the average public sector salary, or indeed anybody earning 20% above the average public sector salary, but again of course that wouldn't suit the agenda.
Came across this today and yes it carries a health warning of it being McDowell with his own pretty strident views on SF but an interesting read nonetheless.
Public Service Pension Contributions total 6.5% when including Spouses and Children. Then there is the Additional Superannuation Contribution which rises to 10.5%, meaning on some of their income, civil servants are paying 17% pension contributions. The tax relief at 40% equates to 6.8%, halving this to 20% gives a cut of 3.4%, but not all income attracts the ASC, leaving me with 3% as an average round figure for the effect on an average public servant.
These are the hidden costs of the Sinn Fein budget proposals, and the rest of their sums don't add up if you exclude these measures.
I haven't seen their latest u-turn on the issue but again, I doubt the numbers will add up and ordinary people will suffer.
That @notsocutehoor doesn't know about various SF proposals on pension reliefs is not a surprise. Many people are taken in by the SF palaver.
This is what you call “challenging” 🤦♂️
I will leave you to it
They won’t, it’s just noise.
TD etc have mortgages taken out based on wages, including SF ones, if they suddenly take such a huge drop they risk losing their house.
Also SF by the looks of it won’t be in government on their own, fully expect whichever poor party decides to jump in with them will take the blame for them not implementing that
I have a sneaking feeling, based on the last line, that you have the wrong end of the stick (again)
Its like the tax credits dropping form 140k to 100k and nobody said anythibg
They got away with it last time so next it will be down to 80k
The pension tax is trying to screw loads of people, funny thing is people are lapping it up, then when they are losing thousands they will complain….
Would an existing SF TD, with family, mortgage, etc., be happy to take a 25% pay cut?
By the way, the SF plan to reduce tax relief on pensions to 20% standard rate would affect many workers, not just PS.
I suppose blanch152 mentions PS, as all PS must join a pension scheme, and most PS pay substantial pension conts.
There is no spoof, that was SF policy, I remember it well.
EDIT: blanch152 may be a bit confused, the SF proposal was to reduce tax relief, not abolish it.
Whether it is still SF policy, I'm not sure.
That's what I am trying to establish by looking at alternative Budget plans.
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