If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
No the Bush admin did that the UK AUS and Poland for example went along with their assertions.
My friend gave me the stone that I threw, your honour.
Jeez Louise again
You're all over the place. Russia testing the airspace over these islands - it's their game.
No your assertion was the UK fabricated and went in with the US. Are you holding AUS and Poland to the same high standard ?
What do you think this was 'testing'?
Both sides do it all the time. For decades ffs.
Did they hang off the coast of Russia ?
If you think they don't wave their dicks at one another then I think you are naïve and under researched. They game play all the time. Muscle flexing.
So that's a no to them doing what Russia does around Ireland. The article mentions the black sea but that boards a few countries unlike off Ireland.
Are you now equating NATO with Russia?
The difference?
A Russian army in Ukraine.
Russia has been pushing the envelope over these islands for a long time.
They wave their dicks at one another, have been for decades. Russians went one step further in 2014...world tut tutted, normal business resumed, we allowed them flow money through Dublin, sought their support in the UN, did business with them.
Russian oligarchs embedded themselves in western society when everyone knew where the money came from. They over reached and now everyone is trying to pretend they were always pariahs, The hypocrisy makes me sick.
I agree with most of the points you raise.
Russia has over reached, it's crossed a line that has generated opposition from European countries.
Hypocritical? Yes - but that's where we are now, not where we should have been before.
Countries in Europe are anxious as to what this aggression may lead to, so there is support for Ukraine and a strident posture from NATO.
Russia you have on one side - and NATO on the other.
Objecting to NATO because of past actions and some member states is a weak argument.
Early in this thread I said that Ireland wouldn't join NATO - but that wasn't the OP.
If Ireland won't join because it considers itself neutral then just stick to that. Repeatedly criticising NATO and, [in particular], one of it's members is a bit redundant in the present circumstances.
We can't even build enough houses for ourselves let alone spend billions on a fully functioning military.
Why should join NATO because we are basically in it anyway and if a war broke out we d be invaded at the first possible opportunity anyway.
There is no downside to being in NATO for us.
Rubbish we found 3bn a few days ago for some reason.
Sorry, no can do.
NATO will just have to put up with the criticism.
And I am critical of NATO, not just one of thje countries in it. Britain gets most mention because they are our nearest neighbour and are most closely linked to us.
If you are advocating for the decision to be ours alone, that is the logic. We can send troops where we wish.
God forbid that we the Irish people decide what our defence policy should be.
As I said again, you are not a Democrat, despite your much-vaunted and vocal complaints on the matter.
'Our National Security is not under threat'
So why did you
a) Bemoan the state of our defence forces earlier
b) Advocate more spending and investment in our defence forces
After all why 'waste' money if your national security is not under threat?
Id say you are halfway to New Zealand given the way you are spinning yarns.
Our government chooses the Triple Lock...democracy in action.
You are just being ridiculous now.
Because while our national security is not under threat there are threats and criminal activities we need to monitor and stop.
This ain't rocket science Mark.
You're struggling here.
The Russians are doing it to wind up the British, not us. Geopolitical gameplaying we want no part of.
a) you don't actually know this.
b) Even it were true, I'm not exactly comfortable having Russian jet use Irish airspace at a whim
c) we are by far the weakest link in Europe, militarily.
Nonesense.
Why did the Russian Navy choose to do their manoeuvres off the coast of Cork?
Every military analyst agreed that it was a show of strength towards the EU and Europe primarily.
You need to stop your overt hatred and obsession about all things British.
This is the 'There are two sides to the story' bullshit that often comes from you.
Remember when the Anti-Vaxxers said the same thing?
Remember when Holocaust deniers said the same thing?
Remember when Russian apologists say the same thing?
That is the side of history you are on Francie. Not a good look tbh.
Yes, and there is talk about removing it, so that the government can decide what it wants to do with its own defence policy.
You want to keep the Triple Lock and let the Russians and Brits veto our actions, yet you think you are a Democrat?
So our National Security is not under threat but at the same time, our National Security is under threat.
And if they remove it, that will be a democratic action which I might disagree with but will accept.
Why do you think I am not being democratic?
Ridiculous stuff again.
Nope, read it again.
Would you call somebody smuggling drugs in through the airport a threat to our 'national' security? We need a properly funded Navy and Army to deter this kind of stuff happening around the coast, just like at airports or to stop our territorial waters being illegally fished etc.
Again, it ain't rocket science.
You want to keep a policy that curtails the rights of the Irish government.
You are not democratic.
There are more threats to the state than a few drug dealers Francie.
Im still laughing by the way..
The Government CHOSE to abide by the Triple Lock Mark. The government elected by the people.
How is it not 'democratic'?
Is it because you can't get your way? Are we all undemocratic because a democratically elected government chose an option you don't like?
In your head maybe. But I am not aware of any threats to our national security that requires us to be in NATO.
“There is no downside to being in NATO for us.”
NATO countries were in Afghanistan for 20 years. That’s definitely a downside. Or would you say 20 years in Afghanistan would have been good for Ireland? Why?
And regarding joining NATO now. The war in Ukraine has proven how crap the Russian military is, they don’t even have the resources to invade Finland at present due to the losses suffered in Ukraine.
So if they don’t even have the resources to invade a country they share a land border with , with a similar population to Ireland (even though the Finnish military is leaps ahead of us) how would they have the resources to launch an amphibious assault on an island thousands of kilometres away?
The current biggest threat to peace on this island is the current British government, with their dishonesty and playing games with Norths peace process. That is our main security concern, not some midget thousands of kilometres away who can barely wipe his own arse nowadays.
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