If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
A fledgling country and economy bombed into smithereens, another generation wiped out in the fighting (we lost enough as it was) would have ruined us to the point of losing our hard fought sovereignty.
It is a 'what if' scenario in which we will never know who was right. But I respect the bravery of the decision, because my parents generation benefitted from it and consequently so did I.
Pathetic and cheap attempt to get a rise here. Not happening, please see my answer to you above.
Agree 100%. You’d also have to wonder about the Irish who don’t give a **** about a foreign power owning a part of their country due to an land grab invasion as well as to this day are threatening peace on this island again by overriding the protocol which could lead a to a hard border. Maybe if they’re county was one of the 6 they might, if a hard border comes out of the UK Government actions and the troubles start up again they might. Other than that they won’t give a shite.
You pretend that the reality of a British veto doesn't exist, because you don't like it. Well, wait for the UN to reform before handing over sovereign power of using our defence forces to the Brits and others.
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That is because we are not neutral.
We signed up to it, and as a good democrat, you should acknowledge the will of the people here, that if another EU state gets attacked, we are legally obliged to sent military aid to help.
We are obliged 'to send aid and assistance that are within our powers to send'. When writing the clause they allowed the opt out (within our powers) for those who are neutral.
You really should get up to speed on how these clauses are framed and written.
You advocate for an Irish government (whomsoever it might be) having the right to send troops wherever they like.
Hold on right there, didn't you throw a strop over accusations that you weren't a Democrat?
Now, here you are defending the right of old Imperialist nations to Veto Ireland's democratic right as it pertains to its security arrangement and defence policy.
Yet, again. Another example of Francie NOT being a Democrat because of his ideology.
Why are you so concerned about the young men and women of Ireland fighting the Nazis when you yourself wanted
a) To invade the North in the late 1960's
b) Invade the North (again) because of the Treaty
Like, id respect your opinion more if you were consistent, but it's hard to take your anti-war sentiments seriously when you in the past wanted Ireland to invade our nearest neighbour a number of times.....
If you are going to quote the legal terms at least do it right and not do a mess of it.
The actual words..
If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
'by all the means in their power'
This INCLUDES military aid Francie. You voted for this, didn't you? ;)
Not defending anything...accepting the real world and the fact that it is the 'best thing we have got'.
BTW, what peacekeeping missions we wanted to go on have the UK vetoed? I can't think of any.
Genuine question.
And here come the lies again from the guy that a single post ago was advocating for an actual invasion of the North to be legal for us to embark on. ROFL!!!!
F** classic!
OK, so you don't want the Irish Government to be in control of its Defence Policy. Therefore you are not a Democrat. Nice to have cleared it all up.
advocating for an actual invasion
Where was I advocating an invasion of the North? ;)
I am advocating that the Irish Government retain the ability to decide what's best for the Irish People, you know those that elect them because I am an actual Democrat.
You are advocating to make an invasion of the north legal Mark.
If you are advocating for the decision to be ours alone, that is the logic. We can send troops where we wish.
The invasion of Ukraine is entirely legal as far as the Russians are concerned, is it not?
P.S. The Irish government using it's democratic mandate has chosen to be bound by the Triple Lock...stop trying to winkle out of that fact to accuse me of being undemocratic.
You are in a corner of your own making here.
We never showed any interest in the EEC until the British began to make noises about joining, then there was a panic as our government suddenly reinvented us a stalwart Europeans
Anyway what does Francie think is going to happen if we join NATO? Other than being in an alliance with the Yanks and the Brits, which is what is really unpalatable to SF,despite running the North on behalf of HM government
It's always about the Shinners.
We have gained a lot from neutrality IMO. It has a value.
What DO YOU think is going to happen if we maintain it?
What utter nonsense.
You claim to be a democrat, yet you advocate for the sovereign Irish people to hand over control of their Defence Forces to real democrats in Russia and China.
As for your P.S. the Irish government using its democratic mandate can choose at anytime to be unbound by the Triple Lock, you want to remove that power from the Irish government and hand it over to the UK and others. Pathetic servility.
And in relation to your veiled threats about a Sinn Fein government invading the North, if the Irish people are stupid enough to elect a Sinn Fein government that decides to invade the North, well that is on the democratic will of the people, however stupid it was. Unfortunately, one of the prices of living in a democracy is that the people may sometimes elect a really stupid government.
The unescapable FACT here blanch is that the government OPT for the Triple Lock...entirely compatible with 'democracy'.
If we the people OPT to enshrine it in the constitution = democracy also.
Please stop the shrill attempts to sensationalise the conversation.
Also, the only people in power to consider 'invading' the north that I am aware of, are a FF government. YOU and Mark want to legally facilitate that if it happens again.
if another EU state gets attacked,
Have I missed something or has the EU been under attack recently?
🤣 We're through the looking glass here, Irish neutrality is not democratic but single party authoritarians like China and Russia are the real democrats 🤣🤣
And Santa clause is real as far as children are concerned is he not?. See the problem with that logic?
No I don't see. You were far too cyptic I'm afraid.
Did you miss the Russian news program where the sank the UK and Ireland.
We are not speaking German today off the back of the sacrifice the allies made while we dodged the war.
Was Ireland not bombed in ww1 and 2 ?
Oh no we're neutral and any conflict between the UK and Russia, Russia would definitely exclude us and respect our little delusion of neutrality.
Same way the germans were going to in ww2 if they had took the UK.
It will be the EU putting up a hard boarder not the UK unfortunately.
Having Sergei Lavrov as a gatekeeper for how and where our defence forces are deployed is an utterly bizzare phenomenon.
Yes it was and we were neutral. Imagine what would have happened has we been active participants and therefore bigger targets.
And remember, we have the luxury Dev etc. didn't, hindsight.
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