Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
When I said the 'government parties lied about USC', what did you not understand?
FF and FG have lied about it, as has been pointed out to you a number of times.
The latest being this:
The thing is Brucie, @FrancieBrady doesn't have an opinion on USC or LPT. He is purely focussed on somehow trying to establish that someone somewhere lied, as if that is more important than the real policy issues.
Nope, I explained why. The people who made the original decision to introduce a temporary measure weren't the people who decided it should be more permanent.
It was the 2007 FF/Green government who introduced it as a temporary measure, it was the 2016 FG government which made it permanent. Which bit of that didn't you understand?
Have you been able to make up your mind yet on whether USC or LPT are good or bad?
...but reality is, all politics, including the opposition, is about bullsh1tting! politics is just a sh1tty game overall!
Pat Rabbite comes to mind
People are starting to see through the FG/FF bullshit, the young generation get their news from other outlets not just RTE or Irish Indo anymore. All their bullshit is now easily called out and lies proven easily (i.e Josphia Madigan and her disgusting comments that schools hadnt even bothered replying to the dept)
sorry, but politics is all about bullsh1tting!
2018 Budget: Taoiseach Leo says Focus on tax cuts for middle earners
2019 Budget: Taoiseach Leo when abroad stated "We’re looking at a number of things, certainly around income taxes.” This led to a serious row at FG parliamentary party meeting
2021 Budget: Varadkar says recovery will allow reduction in number on middle incomes paying top tax rate
2022 Budget: Fine Gael to prioritise tax cuts for middle-income earners in next budget
Bullshitters lead by the biggest Bullshitter in the land
I'd say you were fuming when FG reneged on their promise then.
1) You posted up an article about Helen McEntee you clearly did not even read
2) Hence you brought up McEntee
3) Comments of a personal nature about other people is a reflection on those making said comments.
yup, im not convinced taxes will fall, but i do agree with wealth taxes such as property taxes, but this should be offset by possibly reducing other taxes, but sure we know thats just fantasy land stuff
So the statement I made is true.
That’s happening already. Just look at VAT and property tax
i suspect you could be right here, and i think it could be a far better approach of doing so, possible far more stable to
A UBI cannot be achieved through deficit spending alone.
Taxes have to rise, and the fairest way on increasing them is through USC.
havent thought about it much, but im not sure funding a ubi via taxation is workable, maybe partly, but i suspect by deficit spending might be better, as was effectively done with pup etc. again, i just cant see overall taxes going down at all, theres no where else to go in regards trying to resolve our most serious issues, but rapidly expanding deficits, there is literally no other way. i think at best, taxes will stay the same, but realistically, i think they ll generally rise, in order to resolve so...
I'm not toeing any party line here blanch.
I said they lied about it being a 'temporary measure' and have never spologised for that lie.
Do you agree with that statement or not?
The best thing to happen would be to gradually replace income tax with USC. USC is much closer to the idea of UBI than any other tax. If we gradually replaced income tax with USC, we would get closer to being able to implement UBI, and for many people tax would go down. Only those using income tax shelters would suffer. I estimate that for every 2% increase in USC, you can cut income tax rates by 3%.
Tbf banning porn for 10-12 years old is fair enough but to do that you need to ban it for everyone and make it so you need to ring up to opt in, or you need a license system for internet access. There's no system that recognises a 12 year old is using the internet and ban it only for them.
You get so het up about relatively minor things while refusing to discuss wider policy issues.
Are you willing to come off the fence and agree with all of the experts that both USC and LPT are good progressive taxes, better than income tax? Or are you just going to mindlessly toe a party line on them?
Lying to the public to get something enacted is the 'right thing'?
Have they apologised for misleading us into compling with a temporary measure? Nope.
'Its worse elsewhere' just avoids the issues.
Who was in ten years ago and how much was built?
So what? Its far way below what they stated.
i wouldnt be getting too excited about the next government cutting taxes, theyre in for a serious shock, once they get in, dont be surprised if your taxes increase, not decrease!
Well, you can make a thing about that (by the way it was FF who introduced it as a temporary measure, not FG) if you want, but I prefer governments and politicians to do the right thing, no matter what they said in the past. For example, Leo Varadkar correctly gets huge credit for same-sex marriage being passed, which was the right thing, and it doesn't matter what he said in the past.
Doing the right thing is the benchmark.
So they lied about it being a temporary measure. Which was the point I made.
More on the USC and LPT.
"The reason why the USC so often comes with the prefix “hated” is because of its cold-blooded efficiency. Unlike other taxes, there is no escape. It is lopped straight off gross pay, and there is no chance of claiming a credit. It now sweeps up €4.4 billion a year for the exchequer, an income stream that no finance minister would forfeit."
"The incessant Sinn Fein and People Before Profit demands for some sort of wealth tax wilfully ignore the fact, as verified by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), that Ireland already has the second most progressive income-tax system among its 36 member countries and the most progressive among its EU members. What that means, in practical terms, is that high earners in Ireland pay proportionately more income tax than their peers in most other countries."
"A straightforward rebuttal of the demand for a new “wealth tax” is to point out that we already have one: the local property tax. As it happens, the LPT is also highly progressive: the more valuable your house, the more you pay. Why on earth are the socialists of Dail Eireann still opposed to it?"
The problem on these thread is that the opposition acolytes are afraid to engage in any criticism of opposition policies. Whereas, I, among others, have been critical for a long time of FG opposition to the USC, and am delighted to see they changed their mind, the opposition supporters refuse to engage in any true analysis, just repeating tired mantras.
The thing about USC is that "the reason for such a high contribution from high earners is because the USC has very few tax avoidance loopholes for the wealthy to exploit, unlike income tax. Low paid workers cannot avail of income tax loopholes because many of them do not earn enough to pay tax in the first place."
Thankfully, FG have moved away from a policy to abolish it, and it is now only the opposition parties that want to give all that money back to the rich.
The only people to have lied about this tax though is the governement parties.
I earn a mid range salary. Certainly not “wealthy”. What justification is their for this stealth tax ?
Anyway I'm about to head off for a scan, I'm one of those other statistics, cancelled appointments, delays in our health service etc.
So didn't want to appear rude or give an impression I was ignoring anyone (heavens above).
Will check back in later, good afternoon 😉
