If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
The USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1978. What cultural history did they share? **** all tbh.
Do you favour the more expensive approach to our Defence and National Security that will have us spending over 3 Billion a year?
Russia carried out the HSE cyber attack? Really? I'm afraid we are going to need some evidence for that outlandish claim fella or move your post to the Conspiracy Theories thread. Last I read it was widely believed to be a Russian/ Ukrainian criminal gang goes by the name Wizard Spider. I'm open to correction of course.
I favour our defence forces being properly resourced by government. From cyber protection to coastal protection. The evidence is that any breach's up to now have been caused by a woefully under resourced infrastructure.
If we value our security and can blatantly see weakness we should invest.
So you favour the more expensive option to fund our defence forces?
Level of Ambition Three would bring Ireland’s military in line with other similarly sized European countries. It would involve a major expansion of the naval and air fleet, including the purchase of between 12 and 24 fighter jets. It would also increase Ireland’s capacity to participate in foreign missions. This option would need the most significant budget increase, a tripling to around €3 billion.
https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2022/0609/1303965-why-irelands-defence-forces-are-at-a-crossroads/
Level 2 looks about right to me. We are under no threat, as pointed out by the less scaremongering, of a physical invasion.
It is imperative that we invest much more than this power swap have been doing though. Had they not hollowed out the defence forces we would not be faced by this huge cost.
Credible defence and security of the state extends to matters far beyond scenario planning for an invasion.
Very few people in this thread are being alarmist about Russians sailing into Cork harbour. In fact an invasion scenario has almost exclusively been brought up by individuals poo-pooing either NATO membership or increased defence spending as a means to undermine posters asking for defence to be taken seriously.
We all know a landing force is a low-probability scenario.
So what does 'most vunerable country in all of Europe' mean specfically then? Lay that out and we'll see what can be done about it.
?
It's pretty obvious Francie. We have incredibly underfunded defence capabilities across all threat domains, extremely limited intelligence generating and sharing arrangements, limited formal defence guarantees with politically aligned states.
Of course we are among the most vulnerable.
Do you think that the Commission on Defence were joking around when they said our services don't have the capacity to defend the state credibly across these threat domains?
It's all a big lark apparently. Shur we'll rely on the "we're sound" defence doctrine forever more I suppose. Mothball the Department of Defence altogether.
What specifically are the threats Yurt.
What domains?
Francie is one of those who expects the British to step in and defend us from all realistic external threats, while simultaneously claiming that the British represent an external threat to us. Mind-boggling nonsense that there is no point in engaging with.
What is worse, he also wants to give the British a veto over the use of our armed forces through a constitutional amendment to enshrine that veto. It is godawful stuff.
Space Invaders Francie. This isn't a pub quiz btw.
You must have missed this post.
SF and Indos4Change leading the charge to be protectors of Putin from the big bad EU and NATO.
What 'realistic' external threats specifically? There are none currently that I am aware of.
The British patrol our skies to defend themselves from what they see as a credible threat. No skin of my nose if they wish to do that.
Are the British about to invade us? What intelligence is available on this threat I supposedly claimed? Can you point to where I have oulined a threat from Britain that would require the defence forces to repudiate? I'll not hold my breath waiting for backup.
Fair enough, we'll put that in the vague scaremongering column then.
I stand over my summary of your position.
Right so prior to your earlier statements about..
I favour our defence forces being properly resourced by government. From cyber protection to coastal protection.
..you really just want to shore up some of the very basics but it still leaves us blatantly short and with still the weakest military in Europe, where the RAF will patrol our air space.
Option 2 would make more sense if we also purposed some military alliances. It doesn't have to be NATO per say, but certainly, we need to have others have our back as we don't want to spend enough to defend ourselves.
So go do some research on why parties in the EU did not always vote for sanctions. Mainly because they didn't want to escalate the situation to what has happened.
But cannot back it up. Okie doke.
Searching through thousands of your posts is not my idea of a fun day, but I stand over my comments.
If this is what Sinn Féin's approach to international relations will be, and voters have the right to know what their position is, you can count a lot of voters out.
There is widespread and genuinely held disgust across society at Russia's actions.
I think SF need to be extremely honest with themselves on this point, after a very recent volte face, the party was acting in concert with others in Europe as Putin whisperers.
They really need to own it. The 'prevention of escalation' line is a seriously limp dick excuse for what was a knavish and quietly Eurosceptic impulsive position on Russia.
I know they didn't anticipate the chickens coming home to roost so dramatically with such consequences for the European peace, but they have now, and the party needs to hold their hands up on this point.
...or, once again you lied about me and cannot back it up.
Again, backup where I have ever said this - while simultaneously claiming that the British represent an external threat to us - in the context of needing to beef up our defence forces or join a military alliance?
extremely limited intelligence generating
We don't even have the basics. There is a reason why the Russian embassy is a base for hitmen who can travel across all of Europe.
Those who poo-poo the threat are living in glorious ignorance and there is a long history on this island who wants to live in that world, spearheaded by the likes of Clare Daly and SF.
Remember the time when SF's Louise O'Reilly went on national radio and tried to defend her party's stance in relation to the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and her daughter in Salsbury?
They objected to the explosion of Russian Diplolants then, but would rather the whole thing be forgotten today
Alas, the internet doesn't forget.
The reason was given some months back when questioned on it on National Radio, after Ukraine felt the entire wrath of the Russian Army?
They were waiting for the Irish intelligence service to corroborate independently the facts of the case.... only for two journalists from the Times and Politico to accurately say, we don't have an Intelligence service and its an utterly stupid and idiotic response from the SF would be minister. She promptly shut up in the hope that people would forget her party's history in cosying up with tyrants.
This also extends to defence spending, because you can be 100% sure that if the government choose option 2 or 3 before the Ukraine invasion, the people would be giving out about our defence spending being a waste of money.
Appeasement if you will?
Look how that turned out Francie.
There is a reason why Neville Chamberlain is yesterday's man in history and it will also be true that those who appeased Russia and Putin will also be yesterday's people in due course.
SF have explained their voting record clearly to the public.
Sinn Féin’s Chris MacManus also said he had feared the vote could escalate tensions.
“In situations where the real possibility of the outbreak of an armed conflict exists, Sinn Féin believes extreme care must be taken to de-escalate and promote dialogue. Being measured can sometimes save lives. In December, world leaders were very much in the process of trying to negotiate with Russia a de-escalation,” he said.
Wide-ranging sanctions
“It is in this context Sinn Féin voted against an effective upping of the ante, with regard to wide-ranging sanctions and military support, which could have collapsed the talks overnight.”
Now, the party supports sanctions, he added.
“Almost three months later, it is clear this process failed and Russia has chosen the path of aggression. Sinn Féin therefore now believes the last option available, of wide ranging sanctions, is appropriate.”
Were we so digusted by Russia's action in 2014 that we stopped the flow of money? Refused to go begging for their support at the UN? Nope, ostensibly, it was business as usual. Have they 'Limp dick's too?
At least Ming Flanagan said on the day of the Ukraine Invasion that he was 100% wrong in his beliefs about Putin and Russia. At least he owned his mistake and was honest about it.
The likes of SF, Clare Daly and Mick Wallace... still trying to fool the people.
Quite clear from that article that Mary-Lou McDonald was effectively claiming that Putin was more to be trusted than the European Union. We have a number of posters on here who would be quite embarrassed were we to be bothered to dig out the previous posts on the Salisbury issue.
'Look how that turned out'?
It escalated to a full on invasion? Yep.
To paraphrase Ali, I ain't got no beef with the Rooskies.
Britain feels threatened because it is a belligerent imperialist. If they have to waste money up there its not my problem.
Ouch! Ignorant bliss is right. :)
If we were a belligerent threat to others around the world then I would want an air force.
How did that help Ukraine and do you know think Ireland should have its own Air Force?
