Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

How can the EU protect the SM and also have a border on the Celtic Sea. We are the single market so having that border doesn't protect the single market or the EU.

People forever talking like we are a 3rd country in all of this.

We are not leaving the single market it's pretty clear. It's only cranks and Irexiters saying any different.

You know the kind of people saying I hope it doesn't happen but it will happen.

No.

The checks range from HGV-hauled loads to individuals’ car boots, is the point. Which answers your earlier question, about whether national custom authorities of EU member states check EU loads for risk (/compliance/etc.).

Indeed they do. Not on the scale of EU checks at 3rd country borders/loads, of course, and mostly based on EU-level/cross-country intelligence rather than happenstance/luck of the draw, since they have limited resources.

My concerns are mainly because of the insistence on a hard Brexit, there needs to be a border somewhere. So the big question is where that will be if the UK won't play ball with the deal they have signed?

We are staying in the single market leaving is out of the question. It would cripple the country.

The North isn't the country it was during the troubles and I don't see how a border returns us to it.

There's no need for such absolutes. Nobody om boards has a say in any decisions we're discussing.

There's plenty of water to go under the bridge in any case. Checks om the NI border could be light/only for hauliers etc or similar light type checks in rosslare/dublin etc.

I think a visible, hard NI border affecting everyone will result in terrorism.

So we just bow to the terrorists every time. The ROI has to suffer and take rules from the UK again because the clowns start threatening bombs (which is not definite). The Dail will not risk Irexit over the border.

No certainly not. As I've said previously I just about favour a land border but I'd hope it could be as light as possible.

But if the EU go to town on the UK in a trade war then I'm happy to accept as hard as is required because fairs fair. But there's a lot of road to travel yet so I just don't see the point in posters claiming these weird absolutes like they have a part to play I'm proceedings.

Plus from a Republican perspective I don't want any border with the 6 counties so that clearly basis my thinking somewhat.

A hard border was always accepted as a possibility. A huge amount of work has been done, and an agreement made, to avoid that, but the reality is an always was that if the UK opted to go with full hard or No deal brexit then a border was inevitable.

TM deal, and then the NIP were both designed to avoid a border, but were needed because the reality was that some border is required.

What is clear, is that the UK have been pushing Ireland and the EU as a while, to start to accept that a border is part of the talks. The modus operandi of the UK throughout is to talk about something for so long that it becomes a fact. A16 invoked for example. Reality is not important, only the PR. So the UK want the EU to start to talk about the border as then the UK can claim it was the EU game all along, blah blah, the EU don't care about peace etc.

Of course there will be an agreement, there already is one, and even the EU accept that the operation of the agreement needs work. Hence the massive adjustments they proposed last October. Im fact, it would appear that the EU went much further than the UK expected and took their wind a bit. So out went triggering A16, as clearly the EU had proposed more than enough, and in came breaking the law.

Now, internally this bill would appear to solve the problem. UK gets to appear to be taking back control, the evil NIP is sidelined and the EU will just have to deal with it. The reality, of course, is very different. This bill, if it is ever acted on, will only lead to significant problems for not only NI but the UK as a whole.

Basically it returns the UK to the No deal scenario that they threatened for so long, but ultimately opted out of. Not because they didn't want to, but because despite all the bluster a No Deal is a complete failure and will have huge negative impacts.

That the UK government are left to cry 'patriotism' as a rally call for the bill, we are basically back to the TM government where anyone opposed to anything regarding Brexit is seen as a traitor. They are right back where they started.

Throughout all this the EU has maintained a remarkably steady course. A few hickups here and there, but overall they have played this pretty well, and while things are looking dodgy right now they have managed to manoeuvrer the UK into this spot where the Uk are now faced with ditching international law, annoying the US and setting back attempts to sign future trade deals due to a complete lack of trust around the world.

This bill isn't a sign of strength form the UK, it is the sign of incredible weakness, from a country that has seen itself completely outplayed

Border poll.

I bet they would ya. The other option is to let Westminster win and also cripple our economy.

By the way Ireland and the EU will not ever ever impose a border in Ireland and have made that clear. They even signed a treaty to stop such an occurrence.

It is the UK government that will impose the border and no one else. Any other talk is victim blaming.