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Right to a house?

pgj2015

What is this bull$hit I keep hearing from people? Everyone should have a right to a house? Really, a building worth maybe 300,000 euro or more. why should anyone think it is their right to own one?

People work hard to buy a house, pay off a mortgage for 30 years etc but someone else just has a right to a similar house and they don't have to do anything to earn it? They can just lie on the couch all day drinking cans and watching judge judy. It it ridiculous.

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237500#Comment_119237500

You are basically in favour of monopolies/oligopolies. During a period of shortage. Well done.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237508#Comment_119237508

Nope. I'm afraid you are wrong again. I'm in favour of regulated corporate ownership as an alternative to private amateur landlords as a means of increasing rental supply.

[Deleted User]

Cartels do not increase supply, they maximise profit whatever way suits them.

Saying "regulated" is all well and good but how has the regulation of landlords been so far. If we can't regulate it properly why would a monopoly be any better. If we could improve regulation then why encourage monopolies?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237509#Comment_119237509

Regulated ya where have we heard that before.🤔🤔 Let me see.

Electricity, much cheaper since🤣

Telecoms 50/50

Housing ya made it cheaper too

Ber certs

PSRA do not try to get a house alarm fitted.

All regulations dose is add cost to the end user in Ireland.

In another property thread there is an article about the way investment funds too over property in Berlin after the fall of the wall. It's has jacked up prices. They left building conditions deteriorate, evicted tenants for a large refurb and upped the price of rent 4-6 fold after, and then continued rising them.

There is no such thing as a benevolent landlord, they are all there for a profit. The door has shut on your theory, when it was first suggested the present outcome was foretold on Boards 6-8 years ago.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237939#Comment_119237939

I read the article about Berlin and sure there are problems there. However traditionally Germany has had a much better rental market than Ireland. It is not uncommon for families to rent the same place for twenty to thirty years sometimes into retirement.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119235508#Comment_119235508

yes they are indeed needed, but we must have our ducks in a row before allowing them into our markets, we cannot default to our usual position of allowing them to dictate and dominate our markets, i.e. there must be strict conditions attached to public agreements, such as no excess profits etc, this is one of the reasons why our approaches to date have completely failed!

Bit cynical

We have about 70% owner occupied homes here in Ireland. Not as high as Romania with over 90% but much higher than Germany, Austria or Switzerland with about 50%. Over time, I would see Ireland moving gradually towards the German model and away from Romania but, as we have seen, there's going to be a lot of (often irrational) resistance to that.

2ndcoming

Great, another Frank Grimes thread on housing, just what Boards needed.

Viscount Aggro

We live in a society that not only encourages weakness, it rewards it.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237500#Comment_119237500

Genuine question. Why are small time amateur landlords a problem?

Surely we need the small time amateur landlords alongside the big property ownership companies?

What's to be gained by squeezing out the small time amateur landlord? Surely that will reduce supply further?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239944#Comment_119239944

ah now, i wouldnt go that far, in regards describing the plutocratic classes, i.e. the primary owners of assets!

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119240479#Comment_119240479

I'm not actually against small-time amateur landlords just as I'm not against home ownership. The problem is the rental market dominated by small landlords. It means that you can't bring in regulations that would allow ten or twenty year rentals with a degree of security as is common in some other countries. For example, a small landlord will always be able to evict on the basis of a close relative moving in. A small landlord will also tend to evict if he wants to sell. Nothing wrong with either of these but it is not conducive to long-term secure renting.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119239944#Comment_119239944

Who do you think are the wimps?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119240606#Comment_119240606

You could look at it the other way. Small landlords provided the rental market in it's entirety and now are being shafted by the way they are being treat to the preference of big investment. They aren't dominant they were the market with ever increasing tax and regulation.

A small landlord maybe legally allowed to evict somebody but have little to no legal support to do it with it take years to get a person out. Anybody or company evict tenants when selling due to the laws here.

The public are complaining about the big investment companies while also wanting small landlords to have ever increasing costs and liabilities. They even wanted to make certain landlord actions criminal offenses while a tenant could rip a place apart and able to walk away.

There needs to be a proper balance of rights and responsibilities and at present it is skewed in favour of tenants. Small landlords should not be responsible financially for failed government policy but that is how it is. The public also like this

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242446#Comment_119242446

It is true that a company can evict tenants when selling, however when selling a block of apartments to another company the general practice is to sell with tenants in situ. This saves the other company from having to find tenants and also how tenants can rent the same place for years while ownership changes hands several times. Another benefit to the tenant is that the company won't have an immediate relative requiring accommodation.

I agree that landlords (professional or otherwise) should have an easier time evicting tenants who don't pay or who damage the property but this is an issue that can be addressed separately.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242645#Comment_119242645

I don't know where you got the idea they usual sell with tenants because that is the rarity not standard practice for all sales including apartment blocks. The law was changed to stop it above a certain size but they are rarely sold in the first place so it is very small comfort for a very small amount of people.

As evictions and destruction are a huge cost risk to landlords it needs to be addressed at the same time as everything else if cheaper rent is desired. Nothing happens in a vacuum and holistic approach needed to be fair to all and not based on public opinion as done now. Landlords are leaving the market and rental properties drop due to current policies

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242789#Comment_119242789

But that's because large scale ownership is still comparatively rare. If a company is selling a tenanted apartment building to another company, there's not much benefit to evicting all the tenants. I can see why there might be if a small landlord is selling an apartment. He want's to include owner occupiers in the bids, but this does not apply to a company selling a block.

On your other point, I've already agreed that it should not be difficult to remove non-paying or damaging tenants.

growleaves

@Ray Palmer 'The public are complaining about the big investment companies while also wanting small landlords to have ever increasing costs and liabilities. They even wanted to make certain landlord actions criminal offenses while a tenant could rip a place apart and able to walk away.'

No the public don't want that. FF/FG brought in disadvantages for small landlords via legislation and people like yourself don't want to blame them, because you voted for them and don't want to admit that you got played, so you have to pin the blame somewhere else: tenants, 'the public', Sinn Fein, NGOs, the tooth fairy etc., etc.

'The public also like this'

Not at all. Most people hold down jobs, pay taxes, pay rent, and hate the kind of people who wrecks properties and overstay leases.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242866#Comment_119242866

Its all very well to agree with changes to support LL. However and changes in Legislation are all stick based.

A vacancy tax will not work IMO as it will not apply to 70% plus of property and people will find ways to avoid it. There is no such thing as a market rent.

If you want people who have control of single vacant houses, whether it belong to a parent who moved in with children or is in a nursing home, then it all about giving these people the confidence to rent such a house.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247999#Comment_119247999

I think you may be responding to a different post. I don't think I made reference to a vacancy tax in that post although I did discuss it in another thread a while back.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247945#Comment_119247945

I didn't vote FF/FG. You would want to have willingly ignored people on this thread who want landlords to pay more taxes and have greater punishment. SF are very clear they want landlords to have more restrictions. The general public want cheaper rent and want landlords to make less profit. If you think they care about landlord rights you are hearing voices in your head.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255717#Comment_119255717

It seems that 30% of houses for sale in Dublin at present are from smaller LL. This is especially interesting as it seem even with high rents available in Dublin small LL with 1-2 properties are racing through the exit.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255829#Comment_119255829

Yes because they scared about what will happen next from the government and if SF they seem to want to take away rights from landlords. It is a scary time to be a landlord. This is reducing the amount of rentals on the market and lowering occupancy rates. Once a house is sold from rental less people live in the properties. It is one of the worst outcomes that could happen in the current market

Nidge20131

What I find hard to understand is why in the past we regarded a home a right to people, including those who dont work and yet today working people, on decent incomes, are seen as having no right to a home and expected to house share or live in the family home

Its also really unfair that council tenants paying little have so many more rights and protections than private renting who work and pay a lot more

Greyfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255860#Comment_119255860

Anybody who says it's a scary time to be a landlord is living in a world that's a million miles from reality.

Taylor365

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119277320#Comment_119277320

I'd rather invest in some cacti and jump head first into them than invest in the irish property market.

Both investments share similar pain.

riclad

If you look at the tax situation Re small landlords it's ridiculous, they pay about 50 per cent tax, if they want to evict a tenant it takes 12 months, go to court, pay a solicitor, its standard practice to leave tenants in place, if a company sells a building,

the Banning of bedsits was a bad idea, it forced many landlords to sell up. Rather than install new bathrooms in each rental unit

After 2008 the government was happy to have vulture fund buy up houses which had fallen in value by 50 per cent there has to be a balance of rights in tenants versus landlord

People are complaining about young people trying to compete with big company's when they are bidding to buy a house

This is not russia most houses are owned by the people who live in them or company's or the local authority we have a high rate of private home ownership compared with other country's

Landlords do get a tax credit 100 per cent for repairs and they also have insurance