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The Hobby Horses of Belief (and assorted hazards)

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    A fair percentage of the remainder are Muslim, and also a certain amount of Hindu in my daughters school. ET is very much about inclusivity, celebrating diversity and taking a secular stance to religion, where all religions are acknowledged, welcomed and accepted without discrimination but not taught as part of the curriculum.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The appeal for help sounds like it was channelled from the TV show Stranger Things. “Exorcist: trained teams needed in parishes to fight evil spirits.”

    It is, however, the splash headline in this week’s Irish Catholic, Ireland’s biggest-selling religious newspaper.

    Fr Pat Collins, a priest of the Vincentian order and a prominent Dublin-based exorcist, told the weekly there was an urgent need for “deliverance ministry” to help people who feel oppressed by evil spirits.

    “As Ireland has secularised, there is a crisis of truth, and a crisis of meaning – people are getting into all kinds of things they wouldn’t have got into before. As a result, people are more open to spiritual forces that can be negative.”

    Unlike exorcism, which is conducted by priests given special permission from the Catholic church, deliverance ministry is prayer for people who are distressed and wish to heal emotional wounds, including those purportedly caused by evil spirits.

    Collins said Irish bishops recognised the need. “The demand is much greater than the supply.”

    The Guardian has contacted Fr Collins for comment.

    The priest, a trained psychologist, had made similar calls before. In 2018 he told Irish Catholic of being inundated with people who believed they were afflicted by evil spirts.

    “I think in many cases they wrongly think it, but when they turn to the church, the church doesn’t know what to do with them and they refer them on either to a psychologist or to somebody that they’ve heard of that is interested in this form of ministry, and they do fall between the cracks and often are not helped,” he said.

    Deliverance? Squeal like a pig, boy!


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Letter in today's IT:


     Sir, – I suggest RTÉ provide the Angelus to those who want it by way of a mobile app instead. It could be called the RTÉ Prayer. – Yours, etc,

    CHRISSIE BYRNE,

    Sandycove,

    Co Dublin.

    😁

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Grand Canal, Canal Road, Dublin, Thursday.

    I remember seeing similar (or possibly a proper billboard with the same image) in Middle Abbey St sometime before Covid. Some bunch of weirdos behind them but it escapes me who. Needless to say, illegal.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    On a Dublin Bus, this evening.


    Is CIE so desperate for cash that they have to entertain this shyte?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Religion gets into bed with right-wing politics yet again - what could possibly go wrong?

    A divisive political figure in life, Shinzo Abe’s violent death on July 8th has inevitably divided Japan. Some are already grumbling about paying for a state funeral in September (the first since 1967) for a former prime minister whose legacy is still deeply disputed. The key element in his murder, however, appears to have been religion, not politics.

    Abe’s presumed killer, Tetsuya Yamagami (41), was apparently driven by hatred of the Unification Church. Smart and ambitious, his road to middle-class prosperity was blocked when his widowed mother drained the family purse in service to a cult. According to family sources, she donated about 100 million yen (€715,000), including insurance money from her husband’s death, to the church.

    Better known as the Moonies, the Unification Church claims to have about 600,000 followers in Japan. Family members say Yamagami’s distraught mother joined in 1991 after the suicide of her husband. An uncle told the media that the once prosperous clan fell into poverty, and her son had to scrap plans to attend university. “He was extremely smart just like his father ... and hardworking, too,” said the uncle. “I only have good memories of him.”

    The church has tried to distance itself from claims that it bankrupted the Yamagami family. Tomihiro Tanaka, the head of its Japanese branch, confirmed that Mrs Yamagami was a member, but denied extorting money from her. The Moonies have since insisted they returned much of the cash. A group of lawyers fighting the church for the return of hundreds of millions of dollars in donations says both of those claims are false.

    Either way, a picture emerges of a man who grew angry at his reduced station in life. Relatives have recalled phone calls from a young Tetsuya Yamagami and his two hungry siblings, demanding food. Instead of going to university, he joined the Maritime Self-Defence Force (Japan’s navy) in 2002, the year his mother declared bankruptcy. Thereafter, he slid down the social ladder and was unemployed and living in a one-room flat when he was arrested for Abe’s murder. Friends recall him being depressed and crying bitterly at his brother’s funeral.

    The assassination has highlighted long-standing links between the Moonies and right-wing politics. The South Korean church, founded in 1954 by Rev Sun Myung Moon, a self-professed messiah, has invested heavily in conservative causes, much of this financed by selling religious baubles in Japan. Fiercely anti-communist, it set up the Washington Times newspaper in 1982 as a platform for anti-liberal views and forged ties with a string of conservative American leaders, including Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush.

    Last year Donald Trump and Shinzo Abe both gave back-to-back recorded speeches to a meeting of the Universal Peace Federation, an affiliate of the church. Though neither were members, both praised the group’s work fighting for peace and “family values”. Abe warned against progressive politics, saying: “Let’s be aware of so-called social revolutionary movements with narrow-minded values.”

    In the wake of Abe’s murder, journalists have begun again peering into ties between the church and the Liberal Democratic Party, the party Abe once led and which has governed Japan for all but a few years since 1955. One of the party’s elders, Abe’s grandfather Nobusuke Kishi, was a former prime minister who some experts credit with bringing the church to Japan. Politicians in Japan and America saw the church as a way to promote anti-communist views and win votes.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The former Bishops of Achonry certainly weren't slumming it...

    Non-paywalled link but you can only see the parts open to the public:

    And Irish people laugh at the "prosperity gospel" chancers from the US - they wouldn't hold a candle to what was going on left, right and centre in the immediate post-Famine period in Ireland - this palace, one among many, was built in 1864.

    Disgusting really.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose



    Stuff like this just makes you see red. 1864 they were spending money likely collected during the Great Famine. 20 years after this place is built, herself's grandfather and his family were living in the poorhouse in Leitrim prior to being forced to emigrate as they had been evicted from their tiny farm. While at the poorhouse, food and clothing were provided - by the Quakers.

    And still the Criminal Enterprise known as the RCC plays the 'we're so perrrrsecuted' game. Just like the GQP. I guess it works. Disgusting isn't a strong enough word.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "Sir Salman Rushdie remains on a ventilator after being attacked on stage at an event in western New York state on Friday morning.

    Rushdie, the author whose writing led to death threats from Iran in the 1980s, was stabbed in the neck and torso as he was about to give a lecture in western New York.

    Rushdie, 75, was taken to surgery, and Andrew Wylie, his spokesperson, said in a statement early Friday evening that the author was put on a ventilator and had suffered significant injuries: “The news is not good. Salman will likely lose one eye; the nerves in his arm were severed; and his liver was stabbed and damaged.”

    Grim stuff



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    How useless is an ideology if mere words can make it topple.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    The Burkes strike again


    "A SECONDARY SCHOOL has secured a temporary High Court injunction preventing a teacher who opposes addressing a student with the pronoun “they” from either attending at its premises or from teaching any classes at the school while he remains suspended from his position."



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    At this rate nobody with the name Burke will be employable in this country...

    This eejit says the school is enforcing a belief system on students (as if the Irish education system traditionally regarded that as a problem..!) but actually it's him trying to enforce his medieval belief system on pupils and on a vulnerable pupil in particular. He is literally complaining about his "freedom" to act like a complete dick being taken away. Addressing people by the name and manner they wish to be addressed by is nothing more than common courtesy.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    He's probably delighted he's now a "martyr"

    "Teacher Enoch Burke has been found guilty of contempt of court and committed to Mountjoy prison until he purges his contempt or until further order of the High Court.

    It follows an application by a Co Westmeath school to commit one of its teachers to prison for breaching an injunction."

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/0905/1320639-enoch-burke/



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    If he goes on hunger strike I'll fully support him seeing it through to the end 🤪

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    "Enoch Burke has again refused to comply with court orders barring him from his workplace despite spending two nights in prison for contempt of court.

    “I can be a Christian in Mountjoy Prison or I can be a pagan acceptor of transgenderism outside it,” he told the High Court today.

    Addressing the court, Mr Burke made clear he had no intention of purging his contempt by agreeing by abide by the orders.

    "I will never leave Mountjoy Prison if in leaving that prison I must violate my well-informed conscience, and my religious beliefs and deny my God,” he said.

    He said that were he given the choice of either abiding by the orders or acting in accordance with his religious beliefs, his answer would be the same for the next hundred years."

    This brings up a serious dilemma - if he's sharing a cell, do the poor bastard(s) get time knocked off their sentence for their suffering?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i'd say the prison chaplain has taken an extended leave of absence rather than get the ear wore off him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    ..and then there's this gang of assholes.....

    https://www.isfcc.org/videos/



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    On a distinctly more serious note:

    US healthcare plans that cover the main HIV prevention drug free of charge are in violation of the right to religious freedom, a judge has ruled.

    Employers are required to cover certain preventive services and medications in their insurance plans under US law.

    But a group of Texas Christians sued in 2020 over coverage of the HIV pre-exposure prophylaxis, or PrEP, drug.

    They argued the drug can "facilitate or encourage homosexual behaviour".

    🙄

    The lawsuit filed by Austin-based attorney Jonathan Mitchell - who is credited with devising the state's six-week abortion ban - brings together self-proclaimed Christian businesses and employers.

    One plaintiff in the case, Dr Steven Hotze, argued that covering PrEP drugs for his employees would be contrary to his "sincere religious beliefs".

    Typical. Doesn't care if his employees get sick or maybe even die, provided he can save a buck and polish his halo at the same time.

    Unsurprisingly, he is described as a "megadonor to the Republican party and a frequent litigator on behalf of conservative causes".

    The federal government is expected to appeal Wednesday's ruling.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Adult son of one of the most prominent evangelical theologians in the US becomes critic of religion on Tik Tok:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/12/us/abraham-piper-tiktok-exvangelical.html

    Fame tends to develop faster online than in the pulpit. Within less than five months, Abraham Piper’s follower count on TikTok has almost caught up with his father’s one million on Twitter. His posts — more than 300 videos to date — tackle the idea of a literal Hell (“How are you going to take your family to Outback after church while millions of people are burning alive?”), the evangelical conception of God (“unequivocal thumbs down”) and the absurdity of youth group missions trips (“a white savior’s evangelical vacation that other people pay for”).

    He delivers his monologues in a cheerful version of the didactic tone that thrives on TikTok. And his posts are visually appealing, too, as far as mini-lectures go. He often records while strolling through a formerly industrial area of Minneapolis, his long gray hair peeking out of a series of goofy knit hats. His other interests on TikTok include popular philosophy, language and the jigsaw puzzle company he co-founded. (Mr. Piper also co-founded and is on the board of a media company called Brainjolt; he told CNBC in 2017 that the company expected to take in $30 million that year.)

    On a snowy day in February, Mr. Piper took 59 seconds to explain to his followers why it is absurd for Christians to make their children read the Bible. “While other kids are learning to read with comics or whatever normal parents have around the house, here fundie kids are — 6, 7, 8 years old — devouring stories of Jezebel being defenestrated and then eaten by dogs,” he said with a bemused smile, using a slang term for “fundamentalist.” The Bible is “basically ‘Game of Thrones,’” he added, “except if you don’t read it, you go to Hell.”

    Didn't know 'exvangelical' was a word...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The judge said Mr Burke is entitled to hold his religious beliefs, which she had no doubt were genuine, but the decision by the school to place him on paid administrative leave was not an attack on those beliefs.

    Not quite sure whether they mean the beliefs are 'a genuine religion' or 'genuinely held' but I'd love to know the policies, guidelines or procedures which an Irish court might use to determine either.

    Such is the tangled web we weave when we refuse to separate church and state, and give religions privileges under law and in the organisation of state funded services.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,211 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I dont think that quote says his religion is genuine. To me it says that his belief in his religion is genuine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato



    A Montessori school with 45 pupils has been forced to shut, a girl’s national school has lost its PE facility and a number of community groups are without a venue due to a standoff with a local priest over access to the parish hall in Drumcondra, north Dublin.

    Public representatives, including Minister for Finance Paschal Donohoe and Senator Mary Fitzpatrick are among those who have unsuccessfully sought a meeting with Fr Martin O’Shea about reopening the Corpus Christi hall on Home Farm Road in Drumcondra, which has been closed since March 2020.

    The Corpus Christi hall was built in 1967/68 – funded largely by a bequest. It has been school hall for the adjacent Corpus Christi girls’ national school and provided space to Irish dancing, Zumba and older people’s groups. The hall had been home to the Montessori Children’s Academy (MCA) since 1993.

    In March 2020, when the Covid-19 pandemic began, the hall closed. In July 2020, Fr O’Shea wrote to MCA’s management advising occupation of the hall would be terminated due to fire safety concerns.

    Manager Christina O’Riordan told The Irish Times: “We immediately engaged fire engineers who inspected the premises and found that while some remedial works were necessary, the building was perfectly safe for occupation and that any works could be done at a relatively modest cost and with minimal disruption.”

    The MCA obtained a court injunction and sought production of the church’s fire-safety report. “The church said necessary works would cost in excess of €150,000. Our report found the needed works would cost about €25,000 and we offered to pay for them,” said Ms O’Riordan. “We also offered to take a long-term lease on the entire building, complete the works, and reopen the hall for the community. This offer was also rejected. At every step the only response from the church has been to insist that they want the building clear and unoccupied.”

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    MacMcAleese, still appearing to have trouble grasping RCC history, calls on the pope to remove from the Vatican website, a blatantly sexist tract from the second-century religious scribbler, Tertullian who wrote that women are:

    the devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of that [forbidden] tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert – that is, death – even the Son of God had to die.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2022/09/13/document-blaming-all-human-ills-on-women-reinstated-on-vatican-website/



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    For such an intelligent person you'd imagine she'd have a bit more cop-on. The RCC is what it is, it is not going to substantially change.

    You destroyed so easily God’s image, man.

    Have to admit I didn't grasp the intended meaning the first time I read that, man...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,023 ✭✭✭Odhinn



    "The eruption of nationwide protests in Iran following the death in police custody of a 22-year-old Kurdish woman detained for allegedly failing to adhere to hijab (headscarf) rules is the most serious challenge Iran's leadership has faced in years."

    "So, the government has two options: To change its strict hijab rules, which are part of the identity of the Islamic republic. But doing so may encourage protesters to continue until they reach their final demand for regime change."

    ironic, given that the forcible ban on wearing the headscarf was a cause of dissent against the rule of the Shah.



  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    It's strange how hard some people find it to grasp a simple principle: stop preaching at women what they can and can't wear. Mandatory hijabs and hijab bans are equally stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    But but... letting women do what they like? Society will go to hell in a handcart, etc.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    On the front page of yesterday's Irish Times:

    Nice to know they've still got plenty of money to invest despite not properly compensating the victims of their abuses.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Lovely get-out clause:

    "Deposit with 100% Capital Security at maturity from NatWest Markets NV"

    "Warning: if NatWest Markets NV were to default, you could lose some or all of your investment and potential interest. Warning: your investment is not covered by any Deposit Guarantee Scheme."



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