Selling arms to a nation is not meddling in their affairs. Christ, if that was the case, who is meddling in Irish affairs by selling arms to us?
There is no comparison between the US and Russia. You only have to look at Putins many excuses for this invasion to see where his mindset is.
‘morning folks.
Pretty sure I’ve seen recently Putin wanted to go all Peter the Great on Europe. One of the main reasons he’ll not be able to do that is because of US led NATO.
The US has a history of trying to police the world, less so lately. And don’t always get it right, and have got into bed with unsavoury people. But on the whole, imo, have been more benign than say, if Russia or China, had such power. Oh, and look at China… they are significantly tooling up, aping the US with aircraft carriers. Chinese culture not unlike Russia see vanquished nations and even their own citizens as pawns. Pawns don’t get treated well. But, America!
As for Russia and their new mighty Rubble, they are back to building 80s level cars and soon won’t be able to maintain aircraft. Why, surely they can buy all they want with the newly highly valued Rubble… they should be able to import way more… no? No.
Based on the footage we’ve all seen, it looks like the Russians are still using some of those 7,000 tanks 70 years on….!
We regularly get fined by the EU for failing to meet targets on stuff like environmental issues and water pollution, air quality etc. Not hard to imagine such fines being extended to areas concerning security and intelligence etc.
Are you saying the wider geopolitical landscape has no place on this thread? I was responding to others when discussing what you mentioned above, and that all stemmed from views on Russia. Discussing the evils that Russia are accountable for alongside similar evils in the world isn't taking things off topic. Would a conversation about the Galway intercountry hurling team be much if you couldn't discuss the league? I'm not saying justifying how bad Galway are, i'm just sharing my views on the state of the league overall.
This whole conversation is only snowballing because of your input, it was a short lived thing otherwise and something others were happy enough to talk about.
No your take on Yemen, Saudi or the Galway senior intercounty hurling team are off-topic, not welcome and are for another thread.
End of. Read the thread from the start for more, or don't and have this handed over to the mods.
I had or have no intention of derailing the thread. As I said, I responded to someone who posted about American geoplitical influence and only to share my views on what they had said, advising that I felt both were as bad as eachother. I understand that the thread subject is Russia, but does that mean we can't share our views on the US response or the attitude at the moment towards the US? Does that not limit the discussion? I understand that line not being welcome when it comes to bolstering a view that Russia are somehow in the right here, but that isn't what i'm doing. I was only ever responding to a a statement that I felt I could add to, maybe even have a conversation about and it was all in the context of this current conflict, the subject of the thread.
If the mods want to put me in my place, then fine. That's their job and i'll respect their views on the matter.
You were doing textbook "Yes but America" posting that nearly ruined the thread early doors. Yemen, Saudis, American approach scum yadda yadda.
You're welcome to continue, but fair warning, I and likely others will report the posts. And not because we're uncritical of America or have Uncle Sam posters in our downstairs toilet. That big list of banned people on page 1? Probably half of them are there because they insisted on dragging the thread off topic in the exact manner you are attempting. Been there, done that, it's not welcome and it'll be handed over to the mods.
The other alternative is to start threads on Yemen, Saudi or whatever else you please.
This thread has higher standards.
Direct US involvement in wars has been much reduced since around 2015 or so. Yes, they have a huge arms industry but that is something of a separate discussion. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was even seen as popular by the American public.
The legions of closet Putin fans on social media keep referring back repeatedly to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc (hello Mick and Claire) but are ignoring the new reality of a generally less interventionist US.
I don't see how it is off topic. I was initially responding to someone who might have had similar views, but they were clearly pro American. I responded to them to give my view that both sides are wrong. I didn't realise that the thread was limited to discussion about Russia only. That seems silly in the context of geopolitics. I understand not wanting the "yes, but America" to justify Russia's actions, but i'm not doing that. I will smile when Putin is hung, he has caused the suffering and death of people who were living lives as normal as you and me only a few months ago. I also feel the same way about the US and the suffering they have caused and still cause today. I'm entitled to feel that way about both and I don't feel my views fall into your restrictions. It all stemmed from the context of Russia, it's a complex and potentially broad topic at times.
No question in my mind this is one of the key areas where a significantly beefed up defense and security forces spending should be going. I would hope the past 6 odd months will prove to be a wake up call in that regard.
This is exactly the "Yes but America" crap that was banished from the thread.
I'd advise you to go back and read the thread from the start. It's not welcome. Not because you're not entitled to whatever wacky opinion on the USA you hold, but because it's wildly off topic.
Please heed.
The US are funding a war in Yemen and have a military influence in every corner of the world. Them not being formally and directly involved in conflict doesn't take away the influence they're having in some of the most war torn regions at the moment. They haven't stopped meddling at all, Biden only signed off on 500m in arms support to Saudi Arabia, Trump provided them before him. This has nothing to do left v right politics, I've no interest in that simplistic shite.
I'm not saying "yes, but America", you're barking up the wrong tree or maybe itching for that argument. I don't think there is any justifcation for what Russia has done in Ukraine, none whatsover. I'm just sharing my views on the default support for the US and friends by many who are against Russia's actions. I think we should be disgusted at the behaviour, there shouldn't be any time for it. I've no time for Russia or the US, they've both brought countries to their knees either directly or indirectly.
The US has mostly stopped meddling in overseas wars, given up of the idea of forcing regime change and even took a large amount of flak for withdrawing from Afghanistan last year (something that seems to have escaped the attention of the certified loons of the extreme left).
I'm not taking a side either and I agree that what is happening in Ukraine is disgusting. I just don't understand those who feel that same way and celebrate the US system at the same time. We have people up in arms about golfers playing for the Saudis and at the same time championing the countries that arm them. They've just as much blood on their hands as Russia and I think both should be shamed for what they do. We're on a certain side and whether we like to admit it or not, the waters we drink from are muddled in the same way as they are for the Russians.
Why should a good deed in the past have me ignore the obvious attrocities in the present? The Russians arguably brought facism to an end anyway, and I don't think that gives them a free pass on the world stage. I'm glad for the western comforts I'm acustomed to but that doesn't mean I have to agree with US that exists today. They're not a democracy, it is clear that the strings are being pulled by lobbyists and the real power that is money. The whole thing is corrupt, there's no good side. Greed and corruption all round.
I didn't even have WW2 in mind when I made my comment, i'm talking about both as they are today. Both have an unfair influence on the world, and both are dick swinging pests. The Russian approach is scum and the American approach is scum. The people from both sides aren't the problem either, they're rational humans for the most part like the rest of us. Putin should be hung from his neck, and the military machine in the US needs a seeing to but that is no easy task.
I wasn't commenting on military capability, I was just saying that both are a cancer. I couldn't care less who has better tactics, they'd both be better off ceasing to exist.
They weren't stopped by the Russians. The US supplied Russia with 17% of the US war output during WW2. The Russians received over 50 billion in aid equivalent to 700 billion in today's money.
They got 7k tanks ( they got another 5k from the British), 4k planes, 2k locomotives and 11k rail cars. They got trucks, jeeps artillery guns ammo etc
During this same time the US was virtually fighting the Japanese by themselves, and were fighting in Europe.
Do not for minute think that the USSR defeated Germany by itself
Yes, that would be one. I suppose information warfare & messing with elections and referendums here is another. Or disrupting or damaging the operations of those US MNCs we are so proud of in some way (dunno how exactly though - pilfering their IP for example?).
That is all staying on the low end of that aggression scale.
I don't want the Irish public to be worried and biting their nails over it (going to an opposite extreme)!
Just, I expect that if (or I suppose it will probably be when, with the way the world is going) the govt. starts to try and spend some more money on this stuff there will be a public outcry, stemming from or driven by the mindset I criticised. That belief we're either untouchable here or noone would wish us ill or bother with us, and security/defence etc. is really for others to consider somewhere out there in the big bad world perhaps.
It is a waste, who would harm us in Ireland anyway, what about the health service and housing etc. Anyway - sorry I'll pack up the soapbox and stop taking it off topic!
I don't think anyone ever thought that sanctions will dissuade a man like Putin from conducting this war. What they are designed to do is demoralise to the maximum extent the beneficieries of Putin's regime, corrode his war-making capacity, and on a sheer moral level, in so far as possible - keep blood stained Russian money out of our economic system.
In a war like this, as long as the cost is greater for Russia than it is for those imposing the sanctions, they can be said to be working. And that is the case.
Sanctions have very rarely changed any country from its path.
At the most it will stop Russia from its next imperial adventure.
It's not going to stop this one.
I mean, I was surprised by your statement and thought maybe I was wrong. It appears you may have been correct about a month ago but not anymore.
i don't know where you're from. I'm from Dublin. I have no connection to Russia. Would like to understand what is happening in the world but leaving here again as the conversation seems pointless gibberish.
Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, we all know ow that couple, both volatile both extremely alike, an intense love that fell apart due to their shared pathologies.
Is it the front or back the track motors to the blade?
Russia is going to get a hand up from the 3rd world.
Pax americana? Tell that to the Vietnamese, Koreans (evidence emerged of biological weapon use by USA recently), Libya, Iraq, Nicaragua, etc.).
The Russian's are literally the reason Hitler was stopped.
Jackboot? I think you've been reading too much Tom Clancy.
The rouble is a dead currency. It is not tradable internationally and no one wants it.
Want to know how strong the rouble really is? Check out the parallel black market exchange rates in Russian cities (toilet paper) - it's a fully managed currency like the North Korean won, a potemkin currency.
Ruble at five year high against Euro.
80% of world not sanctioning Russia, e.g. Briics.
I mean your post is pathetic, like those people that respond to any sceptical questions about the war to say the questioner is Putin's puppet.
Imagine if science was like that. There would be no special theory of relativity. No nothing.
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