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Planning permission public consultation on solar panels

BrianD3

Public consultation opened today. The new regs would see removal of the absurd 12 square metre planning exemption limit for rooftop solar. I have only skimmed through the proposed regs, one thing that I did see was that domestic ground mounted arrays seem to be limited to 25 square metres area and 2.5 metre height to be exempt.

Also that the 25 square metre limit may be eaten into if there are other free standing "such structures" on the site. This could mean sheds, garages, carports etc.

I previously had a discussion with somebody on another boards forum here on exempted developments who was adamant that free standing garages etc. for which planning have been obtained eat into the exempted development shed area allowance. To be fair to them they backed up this view with a Inspectors report from An Bord Pleanala.

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/3813e-public-consultation-on-the-draft-planning-and-development-act-2000-exempted-development-no-3-regulations-2022-and-the-draft-planning-and-development-solar-safeguarding-zone-regulations-2022-solar-exemptions/

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Mickeroo

Does it show the "43 solar safeguarding zones" anywhere in the documentation?

Edit: Didn't look hard enough, it's the second document. So basically any town with a hospital in it is no better off, what a load of shite.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205279#Comment_119205279

My reading of it is that there is a 60 square metre exemption limit for commerical building rooftop solar in the safeguarding zones - but no limit for domestic rooftop solar in the safeguarding zones. So still a massive improvement from the current situation.

Mickeroo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205526#Comment_119205526

That's not too bad at all then. I should probably sit down and read it properly before getting worked up I guess😂

BrianD3

Anyone interested in ground solar should be getting worked up or at least taking a strong interest in this - for the reasons outlined in my first post. If ground arrays are included in the part of the planning regs that covers exempt sheds, anyone with an existing exempt shed or even a shed that has been granted PP, may not be able to have an exempt ground array.

The definition of "such structures" is critical here.

harderthanf

Isn't it that you need to be left with 25m2 in your garden after the install. Rather than the size has to be under 25m2 ?

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205736#Comment_119205736

it's both. Reading it again, the fact that it says "such installations" rather than "such structures" may mean that solar PV ground arrays are not being lumped in with exempt garages, sheds etc.

"4. The total aperture area of any free-standing solar photo-voltaic and solar thermal collector installations taken together with any other such existing free-standing installations, shall not exceed 25 square metres.

5. The placing or erection of any free-standing solar photo-voltaic or solar thermal collector installation shall not reduce the remaining area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres."

slave1

60m2, what a joke, I've 64m2.

Also, is this the same Legislation as here which mentions up to 4m ground arrays as this legislation mentions 2.5m limit

Planning and Development (Solar Panels for Public Buildings, Schools, Homes and Other Premises) (Amendment) Bill 2021 – No. 88 of 2021 – Houses of the Oireachtas

BrianD3

4 metres is the max height of an exempted development shed/garage with a pitched roof. The fact that this latest document places a height limit of 2.5 metres for solar arrays may actually be good news in a way as it might mean that they are not being lumped in with exempt sheds, carports and garages And therefore not subject to the cumulative limit of 25 square metres (if you have a 20 square metre detached garage and want to erect a garden shed, you need PP for anything over 5 square metres)

harderthanf

Also, it's hardly retrospective, eh? I've an exempt shed and the ground mount already in place. Surely they can't come looking for changes at this stage?

BrianD3

Local authorities can come after people if sheds and solar arrays have been erected that didn't comply with the regulations that were in place at the time. For political and other reasons (e.g. LAs being underresourced and useless), they probably won't. But the new regs won't provide any sort of legal amnesty to those who have existing arrays >12 sq metres without PP.

There was a case in Limerick? where the Council did go after somone who installed more than 12 sq metres without PP, afaik the Council lost that one but I don't know if it set a legal precedent.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205809#Comment_119205809

In the Legislation I linked to a ground array of up to 4m is planning exempt. I'm already aware of the current 4m pitched shed roof as I had to adhere to that with my expansion

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205761#Comment_119205761

I think you are quoting the old legislation being replaced, the new limit of total panels is 60m2 not 25m2, both of which are too low

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205988#Comment_119205988

25 for residential, 60 for commercial in the new draft regs, I haven't look at the old draft ones that you linked to.

slave1

25 is a joke so, to fill a normal 4bed semi roof front/back takes 40m2

Furze99

Isn't it really about context? Solar panels look fine on many modern buildings and in industrial sites etc.

They look cat on period houses and out of context in suburban open areas.

That's why we have planning regulations.

the_amazing_raisin

For anyone with enough patience to read the document, are they doing anything on roof edge limits?

AFAIK the limit is 50cm from the roof edge to the panels, seems like way too much, you'd lose a full column of panels on that

Should be 10cm, and down to 0cm if you get an engineer to sign off on it

BrianD3

New draft regs require 50 cm from edge of roof to panels.

Reading the docs is a pain in the arse but this is an important public consultation. We should be pulling the docs apart and making submissions, not waiting for someone else to do it. The response to previous public consultations such as the Right to Request Remote Work was pitiful and this may well have contributed to those regs being a joke and more about preventing remote work than facilitating it.

slave1

100%, I'll be emailing a word doc to look at increasing sq ft and height of ground mounts (which has not been updated from existing rules)

mp3guy

Did I read this right that the limits are only on ground arrays or within the restriction zones? And outside that it's unrestricted?

RIP North Dublin

slave1

But they are also limiting TOTAL sq footage of panels to max 25m2....unless I read that wrong

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119206212#Comment_119206212

Damn, I'll definitely give it a read when I've more time and usable braincells and fire in a response with my views on roof edge limits

50cm gap for me literally takes a full row and column of panels away

Although I think I'd be around 36m2 anyway, so won't be exempt from planning

mel123

I have a Karen next door to me. Due to get roof panels in a few months. Should I apply for pp?

mp3guy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212226#Comment_119212226

Yes you read that wrong, that's for ground mounted.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208987#Comment_119208987

eh?

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214246#Comment_119214246

I have the same type of neighbour. All our panels went on the back and side roof and, due to the pitch of the roof, they aren't really visible from ground level so no-one is any the wiser.

mel123

Yeah my neighbour has already objected to pp for an extension went as far as an board planala costing us time and a lot of money so now I’m wondering if I should apply for it or just go ahead and hope for the best (best being she will object but they won’t pay any heed)

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217116#Comment_119217116

Any chance she has holidays coming up? Or even a day trip away. You’d be surprised how quickly they can be installed 😊

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212243#Comment_119212243

Isn’t the 50cm thing for safety though (wind, mainly).

A good storm from the right direction and pop… so, would you really want it out closer to the edge and then have them ripped off for the next storm?! 😉

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119218647#Comment_119218647

It used to be 30cm, did we suddenly get more storms?

I'm sure an exemption could be granted if there were wind deflectors or something were added as a requirement

KCross

It used to be 30cm, did we suddenly get more storms?

or they found that 30cm wasn’t enough! 😉

I don’t know, just saying it’s not there to be awkward or for aesthetic reasons.