Funny too how a new account pops up mentioning old men all the time, just like the alt account that got exposed as being the account of a certain poster who was once a regular in here.
ahh.. I'd be pro-Eu.. but I'd say that they are partially responsible for all of this.
It's the nature of politics. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. I support you in this, and you support me later in something else. Backroom deals are commonplace in all human systems, and while the official declarations won't acknowledge the supports given, they happened nonetheless.
When Germany/Merkel were extremely pro-mass immigration, there would have been influence brought to bear on all smaller nations to accept and support her policies. After all, Germany was/is the powerhouse of Europe, and that has repercussions for other nations. Just look at the condemnation that Poland received over immigration.. which has been offset due to Ukraine, but had that not happened, they would have continued to be punished for resisting the main thrust of EU agendas. Then, there's other countries like Spain who have attempted to take harder stances on immigration, but have backed down repeatedly because they need EU financial supports.
The majority of the responsibility rests on the nations political leadership (and public service), but the EU remains a major influencer over domestic policy.
Leaving the EU though would be economic and diplomatic suicide for Ireland.
Jui solis was in play before that in Irish law to some degree, the GFA made it more concrete. Regardless, my point is the EU had nada to do with it, or its removal as a loophole for birthright citizenship.
I agree…. But how can you reform the EU ? I ask because I’ve no idea !
The processes are in place. The EU is an administrative construct which has lost control over itself. There are processes/procedures in it's charter for reform. I do think it would be extremely difficult because they've been given too much freedom away from the Member States themselves, as a separate entity.. but it's definitely possible.
And we're in a good position to do it. Both France and Germany are tired of multiculturalism, immigration, and ultimately propping up the other weaker EU nations (like Spain/Italy) with their own economic strength. Their electorates are demanding change, so there's less space for the politicians to dither over it. TBH now is the time for EU reform, due to how many nations in the EU are struggling with the current situation.
Still.. I have no idea if it will happen. It would mean tackling the power/influence that EU internal organisations have created for themselves, while also, throwing out the virtue signallers.. which would be a major undertaking.
I'm in shock. Something I can agree with... and no mention of old men. Awesome.
Nope, the birthright loophole was only inserted into the constitution as part of the GFA process
Oh I am motivated by economics among other things. The EU for all its faults is a tent I'd rather be inside than outside. And too often local political fúckwittery - and lord knows we have enough of it here - is laid at the feet of the EU. Oh it's their fault and if we weren't in the EU things would be rosier. They weren't when we weren't and they wouldn't be if we weren't in the future. It would be the same business as usual here.
Same goes for extra EU migration and ease of same. EG the birthright loophole we had that was closed. No other EU nation had the same loophole and we had it from the foundation of the state and was nada to do with the EU. We have the CTA with Britain, no other country in Europe had that beyond the basic EU membership and now they're gone from the EU, we still have it. Nada to do with the EU and "power". Germany and Sweden went through a come all ye "refugees", most other EU states didn't. We didn't. We allowed 3000 Syrian actual war refugees in over ten years. On the other hand we got tens of thousands of extra EU economic migrants and chancers that others in the EU didn't.
I always find it interesting that the most ardent Europhiles are not the types who are motivated by economics and yet the only defence that they will make for the EU is the economic one
Most people don't have a problem with a single market, its the increased draining of power from national governments that is demanded to access the single market that is the issue.
I really can't understand how people are falling for this. Instead of blaming the ones responsible, the ones in the government, they are blaming some abstract notion of EU. It is not the EU who brings in illegals, it is not the EU who gives them amnesty, it is not the EU who don't deport them, and finally it was not the EU the one that stopped that plane from taking off to Rwanda.
You're being too kind with naive, I'd consider them thundering bloody morons. Especially after seeing the effect it's had and is having on the UK, a nation with far more economic clout, even with the distractions of covid and now Ukraine/Russia.
Lol, nope
Still waiting on you to back up the claims that you made a few days ago. It would be a lot simpler if you just admitted that you made it all up, instead of disappearing when asked for proof.
EU is not at fault for any of this. As posted before, EU countries, especially Schengen opt-outs like Ireland, can control their immigration policies and in the past Ireland has deported EU citizens so leaving the EU won't fix anything.
When you view the actual cost to the taxpayers of this growth in population who all need medical, housing and financial assistance…. The nievity might more with respect be on your part…. Plenty of other countries will leave…
plenty of our highest grossing import and export partners are not in the EU… USA, UK, China and Japan being a handful of examples.
Italy, Greece, Poland and France are all becoming closer to saying bye.
the fact is the EU is failing…it has put the wellbeing of its member states and their citizens in peril…
in 60 years no EU will exist.
countrys and their citizens want to control their security and wellbeing… being in an economic/social union shouldn’t jeopardise that, but it has due to mismanagement.
Anyone saying Ireland should leave the EU is clearly very naive in relation to economics.
a splintered off EU ? That’s likely…. Ireland, Spain, Portugal… France with The Nordics ? Some people might be surprised to see me mentioning France but the eurosceptisim there is huge…and there are many vocal concerns not being addressed or listened to surrounding immigration and it’s impact there…Frexit has huge traction..
Which is why the EU needs reform. Not member states leaving it. A return to the economic bloc, and stopping with all this federal cultural nonsense. The EU doesn't need to be the UN of Europe.
I suspect we'll see the EU splinter into 3 or 4 blocs, rather than each country going it alone. Hopefully, Ireland will manage to join one of those blocs rather than suck up to the UK, or worse yet, try to go it alone.
I honestly don't have a lot of hope for Europe for the next few decades. Too much shite is coming our way, and it's a pity because this was a great opportunity for Ireland to truly shine.
That’s the problem…. But the EU through this policy is alienating people and member states.
pools suggest that anti EU sentiment in the EU is rising.
My own view was in 15 years or so ireland would see a referendum here and we’d be gone from the EU
God, I hope not. I'd like to think that Irish people wouldn't be stupid enough to do it, but.. yeah. It could happen. Without the EU, back into the UKs shadow. Wonderful. Ahh well, the 80s in Ireland weren't that bad.
With the Common Travel Area, once Ireland doles out the Citizenship like sweeties, they can get back into Britain.
We cannot go on like this.
My own view was in 15 years or so ireland would see a referendum here and we’d be gone from the EU.
id say a referendum will happen in maybe 5 or so years.
when the wellbeing of the Irish citizens are being thrown in a skip as is happening, in order to help and facilitate others..people only stand for so much…
UK.. since 2020, more people leave then arrive.
I wouldn't be so quick to criticise, I saw the same stuff around the time of the vote in fairly popular newspapers who also didn't make the link.
Amazing how he could write that yet not consider the obvious.
How much of that effect could be "diverse people" being more likely to not vote for something that could negatively affect them?
If it were only that simple, but then again, ask simple questions get simple answers.
But let's take your simplistic reading of the result: Of course areas with more "diversity" IE areas with higher percentages of people who are migrants or of a migrant background are going to be more likely to vote remain, especially when the leave campaign focused on immigration. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. What would be a more interesting dive into the data would be to look at the White British demographic living in those more diverse areas and their voting patterns.
Hard to say but what's certain is the media would barbecue them
What are you trying to describe is generally described as white flight. Not too long ago it was considered a negative evolution:
Today, it's one of those things we pretend to not see anymore.
Fantasia maybe, but just let the imagination run wild for a moment or two, and think of SF changing tack on immigration and adopting an anti- immigration stance, what effect would it have on their poll results?
Brexit happened because their demographics have shifted too much
An interesting piece of data post vote came out that showed the areas with the largest Leave vote were the least diverse. The areas with greater diversity were all pretty much strongly in the remain camp. So the areas where demographics more seemed less bothered by the shift in demographics
Probably they were more concerned about the numbers of other SE Asians, and those of a darker complexion coming into the UK. Those from Asia are incredibly racist/tribalist/elitist.
I always have a little laugh when race activists go on about racism in Europe.. when it's obvious they have no sense of scale, and are deliberately ignoring just how much racism exists elsewhere. Just because people come to Europe, doesn't mean they've left their baggage/cultural conditioning behind them (especially when the diversity crowds are telling them to hold on tightly to their own culture), and for others, they'll be concerned about keeping what benefits/rights they've gained for themselves, rather than being forced to share them with an ever increasingly "diverse" population.
There is often a resentment towards those of our own race for coming to a foreign country where someone else is established. I felt the same way myself in China, getting rather angry at the antics of the western tourists who generated a lot of distrust/anger over their behaviour, and as such, all westerners were tarnished by that behaviour. It made my living there harder, because collective guilt by race is definitely a common perspective around the world. You build up trust and friendships in an alien culture on a local level, and it's tarnished by the behaviour of foreigners who you don't know, and can't influence. It's not fair, but it is what it is.
Brexit happened because their demographics have shifted too much, and the UK economy is not what it once was. It's not able to support the numbers seeking entry, nor is it socially stable enough to deal with all this diversity nonsense. Those originally foreign families established in the UK for decades would have been worried about where things would lead.. and rightly so, because their families would suffer from the social unrest and economic woes, just as much as the native groups.
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