No we didn't. And we wouldn't have nearly as large a social welfare and housing bill or ghettoisation creep and social problems coming down the line if that stupid blank check for citizenship jus soli loophole never existed either. But hey some footballist scores a goal and that makes up for it in your mind. Of course it does.
African Americans dominate sport in the US and when the US competes internationally. Medals and records all over the place and multimillionaires made. Yay! Go Team Melting Pot America!! Yet the Black communities they hail from are fractured, poorer, die younger, are unhealthier, less educated, more likely to be homeless, on drugs, more violent, more dis-enfranchised, far more likely to be in gaol, where the leading cause of death in young Black men is murder. But wouldya look at all those medals...
The "arguments" for this Gilded Truth multicult are truly mind numbingly and shockingly naive and/or mind numbingly and shockingly imbecilic.
Your right I'm pushing the narrative our own against the rest. And that's why you don't like it.
Let our government look after their own citizens before they start trying to look after any other countries citizens.
Firstly I have no objection to anyone coming to this country to work and support themselves and their families and add to the expansion of the country.
What I do have a problem with is the door being open to people who are straight on the social welfare payments and in need of housing and will never have any intention of working. We have enough of our own in this category needs addressed.
Secondly the word racist is now being used to stop people objecting to ridiculous government policies and saying how it really is.
If you're a racist for standing up for yourself and your family and calling out when something is wrong then I must be racist in your eyes.
Promises and solutions that haven’t worked elsewhere because Governments appeared determined not to make them work. They were fine with immigrants to fill labour shortages, and didn’t really care about integration as long as their economies were kept ticking over. When their economies aren’t ticking over, people look for people to blame, and immigrants are always an easy target.
Ireland can’t help but be different, because we don’t have anything like the history of immigrants that other countries do.
There are many "multicultural" Western nations to choose from, with all sorts of politics, some extreme, some just as "ah sure it'll do", and different histories of immigrants(Sweden was hardly front and centre of European imperialism. Neither was Finland, or Norway). Find me one that works, where the exact same trends aren't in play. Just one will do. Please and thank you. It's quite amazing to me that all those social and political brains across numerous nations have failed and spectacularly failed in many cases to "integrate" their immigrant groups. Well some immigrant groups. You'd think one of them would have cracked this knotty problem, but they haven't. What does that strongly suggest? I would suggest it shows that at best a nation can keep a lid on the internal flashpoints, but they never go away. Basic human nature and you can't socially engineer that out so easily. But ah y'know sure the Irish, we're different. Radically different it seems.
We still don’t have a large immigrant population,
I don't know how you do basic sums, or how you define "large". Irish Times article from 2012, going on 2011 figures:
1 in 5 people living in Dublin were born abroad; 218,653 non-Irish born nationals now live in the city
70% of the 5,345 population of North City electoral division wre born outside the State
6 areas in Dublin city centre have a non-Irish resident population of more than 50 per cent
Figures that have certainly gone up. And that was just the official figures, not the illegals, pardon my language; "undocumented". And when you factor in the numbers who are in receipt of social support... Oh and look, ten years ago we were already seeing ghettoisation. Again just like every single other "multicultural" Western nation on the planet. Same trends already after barely a decade in play. But yeah, we're going to be magically different. Nah, nothing to see there at all, at all.
It’s easy to dismiss the idea of charity or humanitarianism out of hand, but that doesn’t invalidate the argument -
Actually it's a complete non argument in the case of the multicultural politic. America is the most charitable nation on the planet and their race relations are famously fúcked and their melting pot is melting, if it were ever whole in the first place.
There were other reasons for the vote in favour of curbing our citizenship laws besides just putting it down to the idea that Irish people then were a nation of undercover racists, albeit that the Government of the day were appealing to racist sentiments in order to save their own political skin. They needed someone besides themselves to blame for the downturn in the economy, and immigrants were again just an easy target
The article gives few of the "other reasons" and just trots out the guff of the time that this was "racist" and yet it still it got the overwhelming support of the Irish electorate. Along with of course that old rusty saw of the multicultists of "the Irish wuz migrants once".
'The lie stuck and I fear by stoking the race issue, the number of racist attacks will massively increase.'
So essentially that NGO talking head(quelle feckin' surprise..) was saying the race issue was the primary factor behind the vote? I have little doubt it had a large part to play in it. I have never denied racism and the "Them Vs Us" factor is one of the single main reasons multiculturalism fails. Of course it is, and it's not just one way either.
Your relatives who are growing increasingly resentful of foreigners will be positively apoplectic if for any reason they need medical treatment in an Irish hospital and have to go on a waiting list, only to be likely treated by the same foreigners they bear resentment towards
Yeah, that might fly if those working in our health services were underqualified, on social welfare, or illegals. Nobody on this thread has been against legal and controlled migration. And as you point out the main reason for the need to import labour is because of bad management of our health service going back decades.
Nah, the whataboutery crap is one of your own making in pushing your own narrative of “our own” vs “everyone else”.
I just don’t subscribe to that narrative, which is why I never made any argument that it’s all doctors and professionals we’re taking in, in order to justify immigrants being treated treated fairly - what you’re trying to portray as Irish people being treated unfairly.
In reality, healthcare and housing have always existed as issues experienced by everyone, regardless of whether they were Irish or immigrants. Your relatives are now experiencing the same difficulties as everyone else has been experiencing for decades. While that is the fault of Government, it was Irish people who voted for them in the first place.
It’s always been Irish people who voted for them. Immigrants did not, no point in your relatives blaming either Government or bearing any ill will towards their neighbours for what is the result of… well, what you frame as “their own people”. That excuse isn’t going to justify resentment and discrimination, and it sure as hell isn’t going to close any doors. All it is, is people cutting off their noses to spite their face.
What a load of whataboutery crap.
Our health services are not suitable for our own population, we have no houses for our own, our public transport is not fit for purpose etc. Etc.
Time to close the door unless we're taking in professional people who are willing to support their family and themselves. But this will be totally lost on you as reading your Last paragraph it's all Doctors and professionals were taking in.
Either it pushes your narrative or you seriously need to wake up.
its the government who are the cause of racism
No it’s not. It’s racists are the cause of racism. It’s as simple as that. The argument you’re trying to use to justify racism amounts to the same thing - “I wouldn’t be racist if other people knew their place”, “I’m not a bigot, I just blame the Government for treating foreigners better than Irish people”, etc.
Forgetting of course that the Government are elected by Irish people, because it sure as hell isn’t immigrants who are voting for them. On the same day as Irish people voted to curb citizenship, they also voted in favour of giving asylum seekers and refugees the right to vote in local elections -
https://www.unhcr.org/en-ie/news/latest/2004/4/40925f804/ireland-grants-refugees-asylum-seekers-right-vote.html
There were other reasons for the vote in favour of curbing our citizenship laws besides just putting it down to the idea that Irish people then were a nation of undercover racists, albeit that the Government of the day were appealing to racist sentiments in order to save their own political skin. They needed someone besides themselves to blame for the downturn in the economy, and immigrants were again just an easy target -
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/13/ireland
One of the reasons for the 19,000 on waiting lists is because Government aren’t prepared to invest in resources in medicine in Ireland when it doesn’t have to. It’s one of the reasons for the Treatment Abroad Scheme which is an EU-wide initiative -
https://www2.hse.ie/services/treatment-abroad-scheme/treatment-abroad-scheme.html
The other reason is of course that while we can get the staff from overseas, we can’t retain them under current conditions -
Doctors complained of workplace understaffing and issues relating to the European Working Time Directive and the hours they are expected to work.
Medical Council chief executive, Bill Prasifka, said their survey shows that doctors trained in Ireland do not want to work in the Irish health service.
"As a result, the percentage of foreign qualified doctors on the register is increasing. They are, if you will, filling the gap,” he said.
So the issue for us is not that we have too many foreigners but we are not retaining doctors who are trained and qualified in Ireland. They are finding it better to practise medicine abroad. That is not sustainable.
President of the Medical Council, Dr Rita Doyle, said the situation is leading to an over-reliance on overseas trained doctors, which is escalating.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30917179.html
Your relatives who are growing increasingly resentful of foreigners will be positively apoplectic if for any reason they need medical treatment in an Irish hospital and have to go on a waiting list, only to be likely treated by the same foreigners they bear resentment towards 😬
But.... this time Ireland standing alone in the world, will be different. Of course when pushed for answers for how, we get nada, or deflection, or empty solutions of "education". Promises and solutions that haven't worked elsewhere.
Ireland can’t help but be different, because we don’t have anything like the history of immigrants that other countries do. We still don’t have a large immigrant population, and attempts to import the politics of other countries has failed miserably - Ireland just doesn’t do political extremism like is seen in other countries. Extremism of any flavour just has never been popular with Irish people. We have an international reputation as a nation of charitable, pacifist humanitarians. We punch well above our weight on all three counts for a nation of our size. That’s what makes us different from other nations.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/travel/arid-40318733.html
I wouldn’t take much heed of what appeared to be Sweden’s ‘about turn’ on immigration either tbh. The recent ‘warning’ aimed in Ireland’s direction was nothing more than political posturing of one Swedish MEP who is in favour the EU building a wall on it’s border with Turkey while his own party back home at the same time are struggling to save their political skin by making deals with Kurdish politicians and introducing more lenient policies to regularise illegal immigrants -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Weimers
https://www.ft.com/content/468b2fe4-370f-4ff4-b9c6-33bf5fa90dfa
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/sweden-19367-residence-permits-were-issued-in-april-representing-over-a-quarter-of-permits-granted-so-far-in-2022/
Similar story in the Germany, the Prime Minister in Sweden is lamenting her own countries failure to integrate immigrants in the same way Merkel did after her country failed to integrate immigrants. That lamentation came late in the day for Merkel, and wasn’t enough to save her political skin. New kids on the block came in and immediately promised to make good on their mandate of reforming immigration policies -
https://amp.dw.com/en/germanys-spd-fdp-and-greens-unveil-governing-coalition-deal/a-59915201
https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/international/immigrants-could-solve-germany-s-birth-rate-crisis-121051000411_1.html
Meanwhile in Ireland, I still have my doubts that we’ll see Sinn Fein in Government after the next General Election, and the current shower knowing which way the political winds are blowing, are doing everything they can to hold them off and keep them out of Government, even going so far as to abandon their traditional political positions and ape leftist rhetoric - in essence we’re getting a preview of what the country would be like under a Sinn Fein government - all fur coat and no knickers, but that’s what appeals to the younger voting demographic, so you get this sort of thing going on among politicians -
Don't forget that nearly every Politician here is a landlord. So ofcourse they want the population to explode. More money for them because they can keep jacking up their rent prices. Plus damn near all of them are eyeing a job in Brussels for the EU. Hence why they're so determined to keep up the Good boys act and continue this damned the consequences. Pure self interest in play.
That's the thing, no one cares. Even the Justin Barrett's of the world likely didn't care because at the end of the day it's all of little to no importance. I happened to see the goal live, and I didn't even think about it, yet the "pros" on here are salivating over it. That's the problem with them, they think the other side has the reverse mindset; they get ecstatic over a non white scoring, so they think that the "far right" are sitting around seething over it. Yet in reality they're the only ones with a bizarre obsession with skin color, which is something that they once accused their rivals of.
My view is if they’re commited; they’re commited. To the ASYLUM! cough but just like Clint and those before, going way way back now Chris; Terry ..
nobody mentions terry but it makes no odds; end of the day long as you go out there, give it your best and put your best foot forward.
he faces on some of the non existent far right must have been a picture watching this and the best thing about it is that there is much much more to come
I'll put my life on it that no one in the "far right" cared. You really think some lads were sitting around going "oh no a black lad scored for us"? 😂
Unbelievable strike and the whole country was celebrating. The pub I was in went crazy and was still buzzing way afterward. The faces on some of the non existent far right must have been a picture watching this and the best thing about it is that there is much much more to come :)
All of it is really irrelevant as very few people want a multicultural football team over a high trust and highly functioning society.
He plays for Swansea in the Championship. It was a cracking goal, but let's not lose the run of ourselves.
If he wasn't playing maybe Scott Hogan who also plays in the Championship for Birmingham would have. If young Aaron Connelly wasn't injured he'd have been playing.
If my Uncle had.....
Why do you assume he's an anchor baby? Do you know that his parents didn't have Irish citizenship, or they wouldn't ask for it if needed?
Why is it worth noting??
It's worth noting that that lad wouldn't be able to play and score for Ireland if he had been born here after 2004.
Makes you wonder did we shoot ourselves in the foot with that particular referendum
The country is fcuked already. Over 19,000 waiting on hospital appointments in my local hospital. It takes between a week and a fortnight to see my GP. That's if you do eventually get to see them. A couple of my family are working and renting, earning to much for council housing and not earning enough for a mortgage but paying more rent than a mortgage would be. A good few houses around them are habited by non nationals who have their rent paid. They are now concluding that they will never own their own home. I could go on but what's the point. This country has forgotten its own and I haven't a clue what the agenda is,and when it comes to racism and the likes, its the government who are the cause of racism by their totally disregard for their own citizens and total rudderless running of the country.
It's the standard operating procedure of the politic. Indeed I'd see it as propaganda of the politic. Oh look successful Black man or woman(the vast majority of the time in sport or the arts), multiculturalism works!! *cue happy clappy unthinking smiles in the faithful. While the same politic ignores the wider facts about the seemingly intractable negatives of and for Black communities over generations in the same multiculturalism regardless of the country where it's in play. Not least for the Black community itself. Even at this happy clappy end the experiences of BAME sportsmen and women in our nieghbour paints a wider picture. Where 83% have been the target of racism.
In many ways it's a twisted update of the old style racism of "I like Blacks so long as they're entertaining for us(or dying in our wars for us)". You see this in the history and the current narrative of the Black American community. It's something those in that community have long recognised and spoken about.
Call me slow to pick up but rest assured my wonderment does only intensify.
I was born on a ferry. Father’s the ferryman, my accent is ferry good sah.
Fair play to him for choosing Ireland over England.
But what is your point? Are you trying to say that black men can also be successful? Are you surprised to see a successful black man?
Born in Dublin
I’d put money on it….”The operation involved more than 40 personnel, including interpreters and document examiners.”
nice OT bill to man up an operation like that I’d imagine.
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/searches-in-co-meath-discover-significant-number-in-ireland-illegally-1318489.html
What are the bets? Slap on the wrist for the employer (which in no way reflects the cost to the State) and everyone gets to stay and gets citizenship?
.and so you scratch your head and ask yourself how did this happen here
Um, no? It's obvious how all this came about.
If you listen to his accent in his interview he's got a London accent.
The Republic have been capping lads with London accents for years, some of them have been black.
Clinton Morrison was playing up front for the Republic with Robbie Keane 20 years ago. Nobody made a deal of it.
Obafemi was on fire against Scotland, what a little legend
RTE news : Obafemi lights up Lansdowne as Ireland beat Scotland
Can’t go against the hive mind of boards.
Pronounced Lackey back home. So basically said NGO grifter has gone from Lucky; for even still being here to being instilled an already overly prominent Lackey for the movement. And a sizeable movement of jah people it is, all the while he’s a somehow a “minority” here he’s (made feel) special . In this era of globalism our world view has somehow extended to an African being the minority, and not the islanders themselves. How many Africans, do you think not entirely dissimilar to each other would come here for that opportunity alone?
..and so you scratch your head and ask yourself how did this happen here, what type of crazy. Is this even real? Another reason when they show up at immigration they need only point the finger and utter one word of English. In claiming ASYLUM!
Yes its sensible to bring in refugees and migrants where there is not proper resources and accommodation and expect citizens to provide it .
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