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Value in slightly older EVs?

MojoMaker

Hi all.

Giving some considering for shopping for an older EV to be used as a small second car for light suburban use. Budget in or around 13-15K and just doing a little research to make sure I don't get caught out by any simple gotchas like charging type, real world range, battery leases etc.

The Leaf and the Zoe stand out from the crowd I guess and that budgets puts me in 5yr old territory, give or take.

So let's take 2017 as a midpoint. The Leaf was 42kw/h and the Zoe was 41kw/h in this model year. Any feeling for what those two battery packs were like range-wise and how they've stood up to the 5yr year interval - i.e. expected battery status after say 50,000 kms and 5 years use?

Charging options? Am I right in thinking the Zoe can only charge from AC charge points? Seems a little restrictive considering the investment in DC network now.

Can either model charge beyond an 11kw limitation?

I am assuming a 5yr old Zoe will be out of any battery lease arrangement, but is there an easy way to check other than just asking the owner/dealer?

If you were shopping with the same 13-15K budget, what would EV you be looking at?

Thinking practically - what are the pitfalls of shopping in the cheap end of the market? Seem to be quite a few Leafs around from 2012 era for €6K - is there any value in this kind a purchase at all?

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Dont be at yourself

Would look at the Ioniq. Smaller battery but very efficient, and decent charging speeds via CCS.

MojoMaker

Sadly quite a bit over budget and not that small!

Genghis

I have a 2016 30Kw 6.6kwh leaf, it's the older style. It still has full bars, 85,000kms and in the 3 years I own it it has been faultless. Range is 120k reliable, have got higher but no point over-egging it.

I would guess one of these would be in your budget. Do look for both the 30kw battery and the 6.6kwh charging, one is capacity (range), the other how quick it can recharge. They had 24kw batteries and they had 3.3kwh charging, and combinations of same so beware, they could be priced similarly.

While it was as our first EV its now second and works very well for us a short journey runaround. We'd use it for school runs, shopping and if we are going anywhere up to 100k away (charge on arrival).

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187333#Comment_119187333

Your leaf is an 80kw.

It May have a 30 kWh battery though.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119187444#Comment_119187444

The funny thing is I knew when typing that I probably had that wrong, and that someone would correct me.

I promise to pay more attention next time.

fafy

For that budget, its Leaf or Zoe only,

next level up, would be

Hyundai Ioniq, VW E Golf, BMW i3, Kia E Soul, or 2nd gen Leaf, which may be obtained for at, or below 20k, allthough, i did see a Kia ESoul onsale for 17’ish recently

Flinty997

I like the eGolf but they have limited range..

fafy

Ya, was checking them out last year, range is quite bad, at a max of around 200km in ideal conditions, but a very refined and comfortable car. Some of the pricing on them is off the charts, many for sale, at 30k + and 2 to 3 years old. Theres a market for everything, but for pricing v range, this has to be very limited one.

glen123

I have a 2017 Leaf with 30Kw battery and 3.3kwh AC charger. I mainly charge at home during the night using night rate electricity using granny cable (have a garage socket so cannot justify EV charger installation especially considering mine is only able to take in 3.3kwh max), so it's extremely cheap to run. 100km costs me around 1.70eur in winter (even less in the summer) charged at night rate. Range is 120km in winter and 150km in the summer (mixed motorway and rural roads). I think I've used Fast DC charger only 3 times in the 9 months I own it but it depends on the personal circumstances of course. I was buying it knowing I rarely drive over 100km in one go and if I had to go to Dublin from Limerick, I'd probably take a petrol car for that but such trips for me are so rare that it made perfect sense for me to buy Leaf since most of my driving is local. Otherwise I would have bought something with 400+ range.

Very happy with it and it's more spacious than the petrol Golf I have.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119188749#Comment_119188749

Wow, what’s wrong with your car?

That Leaf came with an 80kW motor from the factory, not 30kW. Did you change it?

Your on board charger should be 3.3kW or 6.6kW.

glen123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189057#Comment_119189057

I didn't mention the motor. Only the battery size and I said it was 30Kw battery?

I did mention the 3.3kwh charging. Probably incorrectly called it AC but that's the charging port used for AC charging?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189083#Comment_119189083

Both of those are incorrect.

The battery size is 30 kWh. The AC charger is in kW.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189131#Comment_119189131

A lot of people get their units wrong for EVs. Annoying, but I tend to ignore it most of the time.

@glen123

Your battery capacity (not size) is/was 30kWh (kilo Watt hours).

The OBC (on-board charger) is power rated at 3.3kW or 6.6kW.

The motor is rated at 80kW in the Leaf 30.

Many people confuse these things, but you have the correct terminology now if you choose to use it.

glen123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189653#Comment_119189653

I was just trying to give user experience info to the topic starter. The rest of my knowledge is pretty basic, I must admit (typical woman)), but thanks for correcting me - I'll remember next time.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189873#Comment_119189873

We are all learning so don’t take it as personal attack. It wasn’t aimed that way.

Promotion and awareness.

We all started with our first EV at some stage :)

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189873#Comment_119189873

Your user experience was spot on and very helpful, unlike the nitpicking.

loopymum

The nitpicking is unreal. Great way to turn people off posting here. Silly carryon

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190174#Comment_119190174

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190997#Comment_119190997

It’s not nitpicking if it’s educating people.

My BMW 520d has a 520 Litre Engine and 190 Brake Horse Torques.

That sounds equally as stupid so I’d expect that to be nitpicked and corrected.

Fantana2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191088#Comment_119191088

Ah here, the way your wrote it feigning you thought there was a issue with the motor and it was replaced. I’m all for educating people but that was not the correct approach and really not necessary.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191141#Comment_119191141

I’m consistent. I’ll say the same tomorrow at least.

Flinty997

As a used

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058249752/value-in-slightly-older-evs

You've not said what kind of car you need.

I like the Zoe but the leaf is bigger car. I just dislike the look of the older leafs but they are probably the sensible choice. People complain about the ride in the Zoe. Otherwise I like the Zoe as a second car. My favorite is the eGolf but range and price go against it. But perhaps range isn't the issue if it's mostly urban driving maybe range isn't that much of a problem.

slave1

Had a Leaf30 for 4+ years, faultless, very comfortable ride and unlike the Ioniq a working remote App to warm car up etc in Winter. Very cheap annual servicing cost. A great second car for shorter journeys. State of battery health was 92% at 5.5years old, 70odd k kms

Gumbo

I also had a Leaf 24 for 2 years. Sold it at 88% SOH and still had a 100km range at 100% driving at 100km/h.

SVE/Tekna spec is a nice place to be, heated leather, heated steering wheel, 360 parking sensor, LED Lights etc

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190997#Comment_119190997

I actually find it very helpful when people clarify any vague information.

MojoMaker

Zoes seem to be moving fast. Was chasing 2 for a look this weekend and both sold just before we got there, after the ads up the same morning.

Eventually snagged a spin in one. Very enjoyable place to be I have to say, and the range vs the equivalent year Leaf is quite attractive. Quite impressed with the package.

The brief for the car is to find something small, modern, and easy for a new driver to learn using. Not a young driver but a new driver. Electric because it's time to move with the times.

While the exercise of bringing on a new driver is happening I would like to transfer maybe 90% of my mileage to it and cut the fuel bills. The plan is to run a small EV as a second car, without the restrictions around buying new and getting locked into finance, and keep the ICE for those trips where space, range, or peace of mind is needed - and hopefully those trips are somewhat minimised.

It's time for this new driver to gain a bit of independence and autonomy at the same time.

zg3409

Mojomaker it's a bit clearer your needs now.

In terms of Zoe lease, I don't know how to determine if lease or not, but I would check to be sure as you cannot trust dealers or seller's.

In terms of charging speed most are 22kW max, versus 45/50kW on Leaf.

In terms of battery size leaf 24kWh & 30kWh can sometimes be priced very similar and some people list wrong battery size or no battery size.

In terms of leaf home charging speeds you are looking at 3.3kW or 6.6kW and again many ads might list nothing or wrong speed. It's not that critical as you have 45kW charging speeds when away from home.

In terms of battery life/battery degredation the older the car, & the higher the mileage the worse the range compared to new, but the drop is normally 10/20% and if you take it into account you will be fine. If buying based on say 50kW range from home you won't need to public charge and public chargers are often busy, blocked or broken. When you buy a "short" range EV trips beyond range start getting messy and risky, as in will the public charger be already in use by someone else, will you have to wait, and for very long trips will you need to stop multiple times, say every 100km, with the risk each time of delays.

You mention it's for a learner, if you pass the test in an "automatic" you only get a driving licence for an automatic car, which might be an issue if say hiring a car when away. You can pass test in automatic, then you can go back and pass in a manual shortly later.

If you have access to a second car and only use the EV for trips within range you should be ok, but beware overpaying for an old EV as they are going for way more than they were a year ago.

silver_sky

In terms of the battery lease RCI will be able to confirm if it's got a battery lease or not. I'm nearly sure it will show up on a motorcheck/cartell search in finance outstanding but it's been a while since I checked. You can now buy out the battery lease - I just did on my Zoe recently.

Just for comparing Leaf 40 vs Zoe ZE40 - things are not what they seem on the face of it in terms of the battery size. Nissan advertise the gross capacity whereas Renault it's the net capacity. At new, the usable battery on the Leaf is 37kWh and 41kWh for the Zoe ZE40.

This model Zoe has battery cooling (using a loop of the aircon circuit) and battery heating (PTC). I believe the Leaf has the heater only, but not 100% on that. It definitely does not have cooling.

...Ghost...

A benefit the Zoe has over the Leaf is that you can still fast charge even when another EV is connected to the CHAdeMO or CCS. Rarely are the type 2 plugs in use. OK its only 22kW speed ( Leaf is 50 ) but you almost never need to wait for the charger to be free.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191088#Comment_119191088

Its nitpicking, everyone knew it was a 30 kWh battery and not the motor.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119194397#Comment_119194397

The actual car owner didn’t.