To the pro open border people?
What do you do yourself to help it and do for these people?
All those with hatred for other races have in this thread is cliche after cliche.
Turkeys vote for Christmas etc. What the fairy lights does that even mean.
Don't worry they don't know either.
You have the want away travellers who don't want foreigners in their country but when they travel they are the right sort of mix of multiculturalism. What a load of nonsense. Most likely English teachers fooling themselves into thinking they are special.
Imagine teaching English to people in foreign countries but being annoyed that people come to yours such hypocrisy.
We have the im alright Jack immigrants who want to pull the ladder up after they have climbed up.
We have the Conspiracy types who think multicultural politic. What the fairy lights is that, is it some secret conspiracy club that is inviting people to ireland or something rather than just humans moving themselves to seek a better life.
There was me thinking Ireland was a free democratic country with free and fair elections. But no its ruled by a single party called multicultural politic not elected by the people of Ireland.
Absolute waffle
Many of these posters are old men with no children and no real concern for the future and how their hatred will affect young lives. No too consumed with their nonsense belief that white is right or some such crap.
Ask them what their solution is and they go quiet.
What are the positives of Irish society that we must protect it at all costs from normal natural change?
Name one positive that is unique or special of Irish society?
Place is full, 10,000 on housing waiting lists, explain the unexplainable please and tell us how Ireland is not overcapacity without huge nation building infrastructure projects. Projects that should occur in advance of such population growth.
We are leaving the next generation the legacy of a sharp shift downwards in quality of life. All in the name of diversity which is a cynical cover for business interests.
Gullible fools have fallen for this like turkeys voting for Christmas.
You find everything weird, I guess you had a period in your life when the mohawk hairstyle had that exotic lure that Wibbs is obsessing about, too.
Weirdness and exoticism are the key words between you two. Keep on dismissing human diversity as a positive and then keep on denying you do so. Keep on pretending you are wordly, and hammering the same rusty nail for a thousand posts. Boring.
As I said, he'll take an element of truth and use that to build a fallacy. He's literally made a career out of it.
If you wish to use another source to discuss something, but using Quinn as a source is akin to using the Daily Mail as source material for anything.
Most of which I picked apart, the rest are down to individual poster prejudices and irrational fears, neither of which are grounded in logic or reason so little reason to engage on those points
As has been pointed out as some sort of "defence" of this politic we already had internal social frictions among the "natives" and I would agree. Multiculturalism brings in added social frictions and different social frictions and as has the experience of every single nation that tries this political experiement seemingly intractable ones.
Ahh well, just because everyone is part of a modern term for their race, doesn't mean that they themselves see themselves as being similar. China has many ethnic groups all under the phrase Asian or Chinese, but when you dig deeper, even a province like Shaanxi can have dozens of cultural groups each distinctly different from each other. I think a good example is the number of accents you can find in somewhere like London, because accents often (not always) form from exclusive groups interacting within themselves, and retaining a particular sense of identity when they interact with others.
I do think that one of the major ways in which multiculturalism can operate effectively with minimal friction is that there remains a strong focus on the host/native culture. Singapore is a particularly good example of this, because there is some intermixing/introduction of foreign culture from their extensive non-native population, but there's a serious resistance to the belief that these foreign cultures should gain anything beyond that... and TBH I'd consider Singapore as being one of the most multicultural places on Earth. Sure, it has problems, inequalities, etc, but that's going to happen in any human system. All systems break down over time, and favouritism/bias forms towards particular groups, which is the case, pretty much everywhere.
Still.. I don't think modern artificially encouraged multiculturalism has worked, even slightly. They've allowed their own biases to be introduced where the differences between groups are encouraged and reinforced, rather than encouraging that people are thought as people. It's like they want people to see tribalism everywhere.. which seem utterly retarded to me.
Don't bother... this thread is full of posters going over the negatives, and a lot of it was covered while DaCor was part of the conversation. He doesn't care, and doesn't try to remember what is said in this thread. I've already covered this multiple times with him, and he dismissed/ignored them each time.
I'm still clueless to your meaning or the relevance of your post.. except that in included me in a post to Mohawk, by quoting only me, rather than quoting Mohawk.
Just weird.
So if you didn't believe in multiculturalism the best thing you could do is stay were you are born right. Or if you have moved then the second best thing you could do is go home to your own country. Right?
Eh, he asked the dept of social protection what percentage of people getting rent allowance weren't Irish. Unless the dept of social protection are big durty racists and gave him false stats- I guess it's possible!
The word is well n truly out about paddy the sucker. Sure who needs hotel rooms for tourists when we can just fill them with asylum seekers instead.
Great work minister MC entee with the amnesty for asylum seekers last year, amnesty for those here illegally this year- now when can the family reunifications start?!! Is minister Roderick o gorman still pushing for keys to their own gaffs after 4 months? - or will the IMF be back by that stage?!!
Yeah let's ignore facts and stats cos we don't like the person reporting them...
Ah David Quinn, the head of that bastion of logic, the Iona "Institute" lol
When this is the level of his argument "If the entire population of Cork was to move to Dublin tomorrow it would be absolutely valid to worry about the pressure this would put on housing, schools, hospitals, jobs and so on in Dublin" then I'm not too worried. Its par for the course with his articles. Take an element of truth, and twist it to ridiculous levels to try get some bizarre point across.
He's done it all through his career in relation to womens rights, abortion, divorce, gay marriage etc and lets not forget his climate change denial lol
So humans of different races are so different we can't share the same space. That's the world some people want to live in.
I hate to break it to you. That is the world we live in and the world humans have lived in going back to the egg. If it weren't we'd have no friction, even conflict between different peoples. The two things that cause conflict can be usefully summed up by resources and difference. It's far less a "race" thing, it's just that obvious things like skin colour and/or external cultural differences band people together among their "own", or against the "other" and make those "not us" stand out more easily. We have the divide up the North of this very nation going back centuries and they're the exact same "race". Struggles between different groups in Africa and Asia, all the same "race". There isn't a part of the world that hasn't or doesn't suffer from this basic trend in human nature.
I honestly don't think there is a solution once it's in play. The only "solution" of sorts is to limit migration before it's in play as it's very much based on numbers. A couple of thousand [insert group here] in a population of a couple of million [insert goup here] is quite doable. Tens, or hundreds of thousands of [insert group here] in a population of a couple of million [insert goup here] is when the trend comes into play. As has been pointed out as some sort of "defence" of this politic we already had internal social frictions among the "natives" and I would agree. Multiculturalism brings in added social frictions and different social frictions and as has the experience of every single nation that tries this political experiement seemingly intractable ones.
It would be a better world if this wasn't the case and I understand the optimistic maybe we can fix this, but I prefer to deal with the realities and the realities are clear and easy to point too and have been many many times in this thread. Set against these realities we have the naive surface stuff of exoticism, and often patronising excoticism and charity.
Last year, I decided to ask the Department of Social Protection what percentage of rent supplement was paid out to non-Irish EU nationals, and non-EU nationals.
As at February of last year, the figure was 35pc. This is a remarkable total. Remember, 17pc of the population is "foreign-born", so immigrants are over-represented in the figures by two to one
Jesus, if that's the best you can do in a debate it's best stick to Twitter lad!
Yes it was directed at the poster mohawk, but yourself as well, following your response.
I’m not one to knock your former use of a Mohawk hairstyle, or mohawk’s moniker as cultural misappropriation . If that kind of exoticism shakes your tree,
it may bear the fruit of heterogeneity.
There is hope.
The housing issue is not caused by immigration though. Sure there is increased competition, but that would exist regardless. In fact it would likely be worse if you took all the non-nationals out of the construction sector as there would be even less being built, a lot slower and would cost a lot more due to increased competition for labour.
It is very rarely mentioned when housing is discussed. Our growing population has positives, but a real negative increased competition for all types of housing.
Bar a few token mentions it's rarely discussed or considered. Exact figure nights be wrong but I think a third of the fingal waiting list for social housing is non Irish born.
We don't have a media or government that focuses it's attention, publicly, on the negatives.
What negatives should they be highlighting that they are not?
Crisis's tend to be capped and pushed into the background rather than fully resolved. The Banking crash brought forward a large number of weaknesses in our economy, and they were mostly ignored, with the banks and businesses moving into debt financing instead of past interests. The same with our HSE problems, we've had serious problems with the service for decades, but the worst problems get capped enough to disappear from the limelight, but continue to be a problem for thousands of Irish people yearly.
As long as the crisis, or problem leaves the media spotlight, it's seen as being resolved. Except, in most cases, the core problems aren't resolved, and the systems changed to prevent future foreseeable issues from arising. Out of sight, out of mind.
It's no different with regards to immigration. We don't have a media or government that focuses it's attention, publicly, on the negatives. There are no associations made between ethnicity, culture, etc in our crime statistics, or welfare stats. Instead, we're encouraged through positive slanted reports or articles to believe that all is well in the world.. Out of sight, out of mind.
Thing is though, there's ALWAYS some kind of "crisis" [...] But these things pass, they always do
Hospital trolley crisis if feking refusing to pass, any idea when it may finally do it? Will it pass on its own, as crises usually do in lala land, or it will need someone to consider there are reasons enough to do something about it?
Thing is though, there's ALWAYS some kind of "crisis". There always has been, and there always will be.
But these things pass, they always do. Think back to the mass unemployment following the crash, to where we are now with a lot of places struggling to get staff.
Health care, yeah, thats always going to be a basketcase regardless of how much you throw at it.
Housing, this time there's not enough or its too expensive, a decade ago it was too much and negative equity.
Swings and roundabouts.
None of these are reason enough to stop doing X, Y or Z.
If elected president of the world wibbs how would you solve the problem. Do we pick a country for each race and send them there or just kill the ones in the wrong place. How does your mind envisage a solution?
What about children of mixed race what do we do with them?
I do get where you are coming from the numbers in the context are small but we have a housing crisis, rental shortage and seemingly massive hotel shortage/inflated prices.
We can't accommodate people in the country, it's a large factor in people leaving, let alone bring more in. It's crazy the 40k etc talked about by English.
I had no words of caution, nor have I ever made any claims about immigration that have been proven wrong. You’re attempting to associate me with a group of people whom you have identified, to which I don’t belong.
The point I’m making is that your point about adding 4,500 people to the Irish population is meaningless without context. We add over 50,000 people to the system every year, and that’s even before we get to talking about migration. That’s plenty of room in the system for 4,500 people, just as there was back in 2015 when the Irish Government pledged to take in 4,000 refugees, and couldn’t get them -
https://www.thejournal.ie/cabinet-meeting-refugee-migrants-2322044-Sep2015/?amp=1
Rising immigration figures have been the norm in Ireland since the mid-80’s -
https://knoema.com/atlas/Ireland/topics/Demographics/Population/Net-migration-rate?mode=amp
Rising numbers of asylum seekers has been the norm in Ireland since the mid-90’s -
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRL/ireland/refugee-statistics
The Irish system isn’t anywhere near the nebulous and vague “breaking point”, let alone the same media you criticise for not being critical of immigration, publishing nonsense and framing it in terms of the latest “crisis”, when most people simply aren’t impacted by the latest “crisis” at all.
That’s the reason anyone struggles to take your doom and gloom prophesies seriously, because it’s just spin, empty rhetoric, patently obvious feigned concern for anyone other than yourself. It’s why I couldn’t care less whether or not anything I say meets with your approval. You’re attempting to whip up an oul’ moral panic there and the thing is, you can’t base it on reality, because reality doesn’t even come close to your myopic painting of a dystopian future for Irish society based upon the evidence you’re attempting to support your claims with.
Rather than the black and white nonsense of “right” and “wrong”, reality is a great deal more nuanced than your simplistic narratives with which you’re making all sorts of Nostradamus style predictions for the future of Irish society, when in reality it’s simply a fact that Irish society was never reflected in your romanticised nonsense in the first place.
Brilliant, 151 DP contracts handed out without proper tenders, people who have friends in high places? 91 million!!!
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40861496.html
The head of the Department of Justice has said “I simply don’t have any information” regarding the fact it paid out more than €91m in direct provision contracts in breach of public spending laws.
Oonagh McPhillips, the department’s secretary general, told the Public Accounts Committee on Thursday that the direct provision “brief has moved bag and baggage”.
We’re not placing those contracts anymore, we don’t have the responsibility anymore,” she said.
The Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth assumed overall responsibility for the running of the direct provision system in October 2020 from the Department of Justice.
It found that €91m worth of direct provision contracts awarded by its predecessor to commercial accommodation providers breached public expenditure law as the deals were awarded without a full e-tenders process.
E-tenders is the State portal by which private companies and individuals bid for public contracts.
The money in question relates to 151 separate contracts.
“When we had the responsibility, we dealt with it the way we dealt with it,” she told Sinn Fein’s Matt Carthy.
Babies are born every year, people emigrate every year, those things have been the norm for most of our histroy, whereas an endless stream of immigration, which rises almost every year, isn't a norm, and must not be treated like one. "Panic" is completly just when it's a verifiable truth that our system is very near to breaking point.
Down-players like yourself have been wrong about nearly every judgment that you've made through the years about immigration, so I'll not be listening to your words of caution, as they are nothing but a danger to us all. Even if Ireland was in complete ruins, you'd still try and tell people that it's all fine, and that they don't need to panic. There's no cut off point for people like you, you'll never admit how wrong you were no matter how obvious it becomes.
In their proper context, they’re really not insane at all. In the context you’re attempting to put them in, as though ‘application’ means ‘habitually resident’, they’re not even close to the number of new people added to our system which is always burdened, by design.
Just so far this year alone, the number of babies born in Ireland is over 31,000. That’s from January 2022, up to today. Our net migration is -12,000.
https://countrymeters.info/en/Ireland
Perspective like, rather than flying off into a panic every time you read an article in the media.
Some 4,500 people have applied for protection here since January 1, against a projected estimate of 3,500, meaning that applicants have outstripped predictions by almost 30% in the first five months of the year alone.
Those are insane numbers. It's not a reach to say that Ireland, with mass inflation, a suffering health service and a housing crisis, have added at least 40,000 new people to our already burdened system. This is governmental insanity in its purest form.
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