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Child Item

RTÉ journalist found guilty of sexually assaulting woman as she slept

Ardent

I'm probably going to be accused of being all sorts, but curious to know what others think....

Just read this article, which is currently the lead item on the Independent homepage:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rte-journalist-found-guilty-of-sexually-assaulting-woman-as-she-slept-41655437.html

I don't know the guy from Adam, but I have to say I feel some sympathy for him.

Out drinking, meets lady, pub crawl with said lady, kissing at the end of the night, back to his place, sexual foreplay, she hints at sex the following morning, they share a bed together, etc. Absolutely no excuse for his incredibly blunt attempt to initiate in the middle of the night, but when she says no he backs off.

She claims she is traumatised by what happened. But I find it weird that, rather than report the incident immediately, she waited almost an entire year before going to the Gardai.

Anyway, this guy's career and life is ruined. Sentencing will happen next week.

Given the above contributing circumstances, can we really say this guy is a sexual deviant that needs to be locked up?

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hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074644#Comment_119074644

What part of he straddled an unconscious girl went over yours?

If i punch you in the face and stop because you say so, have you been assaulted?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074630#Comment_119074630

To this day the most fooked up story I have ever read about

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074617#Comment_119074617

So what you’re really saying is, what some men got away with in the past, even though it was actually a crime, can’t always get away with it today.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074508#Comment_119074508

Sleep is unconscious.

But if it's a triggering term for whatever reason, just substitute the word sleep and try addressing the question.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074030#Comment_119074030

What part of "when she said no he stopped " went over your head.?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074626#Comment_119074626

A old man went to court over a sexual assault claim, even though there was video footage that proved otherwise. My point is simply that our legal system is not without its biases, and that I doubt that a reversal of the situation would end up in court.

foxsake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074534#Comment_119074534

a tough question to be fair

thinking off the top of my head -

if he didn't back off and stop or if he attempted more serious sexual activity like penetration after being told earlier no joy on that. Or if you met a randomer who was passed our/asleep - that would certainly be sexual assault . Intent also would have some bearing but not an absolute one.

In this case - he stopped with no attempt at coercion, given the extent of what he was doing and the fact there was very recent physical relations between them - I think this case falls into **** come on rather than assault.

it would rely on context imo - you read the story and form an opinion. sometimes its a gray area where you could see both sides but this one (imo) swings hard to the side of - he was really really hard done by given the future consequences for him.

so my answer off the top of my head isn't gonna be perfect (even to me) but I didn't want to ignore your question - cos it's a good thought provoking one.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074615#Comment_119074615

So previous activity indicates future consent?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074606#Comment_119074606

although not in ireland but do people remember the blindfold and the fake penis story?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074615#Comment_119074615

in the eyes of the law that is not the issue

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074606#Comment_119074606

Lots of complaints made by women don't make it to court. But lots do.

Why should it be different with the genders reversed?

It depends on the complaint made, and if there is evidence to back it up.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074570#Comment_119074570

In an ideal world this would be fine....but in today's world there are too many ifs and buts and changes of mind and heart and confusion and ambiguity and he said and she said and they said etc. Then there are the days after, weeks after, months after, on reflection etc etc.

Throw spite and feeling rejected and wanting revenge and being vindictive, and all that. It's a minefield, and this minefield is all there to be used and worked. All it takes is an allegation, no matter how innocent,, tame, ridiculous for there to be a fire!!!

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074594#Comment_119074594

Of course it was. They had no previous sexual activity.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074570#Comment_119074570

I can’t remember what comment you posted above but I thanked it - there are some here alright who are getting more angry the more people disagree with them for thinking the man did nothing wrong and that the victim is some sort of nut case- it’s likely these posters have probably engaged in non consensual behaviour themselves in the past and are now trying to justify it.

While this case may be on the lower end of the spectrum of sexual crimes, it’s still a crime- some people are finding that hard to take

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074548#Comment_119074548

It would be honestly interesting if we could switch the genders, just to see if it even makes it to court.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074595#Comment_119074595

That's not what the jury thought.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074579#Comment_119074579

No they are not. You're taking a complex situation, and spinning it as simplicity that aligns with your own views, in the name satisfying your need for daily outrage.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074579#Comment_119074579

There was no sexual assault.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074575#Comment_119074575

its not really if you look at the law in ireland

Annasopra

Wow.

This thread literally has loads of people saying sexual assault is ok and they feel sorry for the abuser.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074532#Comment_119074532

you sir are a pervert

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074541#Comment_119074541

Completely different scenario.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074533#Comment_119074533

Am I the only one who thinks it's fairly f*cking obvious when a girl is into getting it on the same way you are? I know you all probably think I'm trying to be all woke or whatever but some of the responses on here are scary.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074533#Comment_119074533

How about "If she doesn't want to ride you when she's awake, Don't climb on top of her when she's asleep"

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074526#Comment_119074526

NOPE, it would be a worse case than the above

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073781#Comment_119073781

When she got into bed with him? I doubt it .

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074506#Comment_119074506

You wouldn't make a complaint (I'm assuming, from your posts on here), so the point is moot.

But if a man did feel violated by a woman making sexual advances while he was asleep and not in a position to consent, is he not entitled to make a complaint about that?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074463#Comment_119074463

Unfortunately there’s just a few posters here who like to find drama where there’s none but also conveniently ignore the documented facts of the case.

indeed you are correct- and this “straddling” as you put it, is the core of the case- it wasn’t a gentle spoons fondle or cuddle - we have no idea if more serious charges were considered or not, but while the conviction is based on a “breast fondle” which is a technical sexual assault given no consent was provided by the victim, the straddling (assuming both were naked) could have been quite traumatic -

but some people on here are minimising this case as a gentle spoons type cuddle - that’s not what this is

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074502#Comment_119074502

A jury is told they only have two options, guilty or not guilty they actually have a few more - this is since a jury doesn't have to justify their decision.

They can also decide that what the accused has done should or should not be an offence. This is called jury nullification.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074491#Comment_119074491

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/28/2

Happened in Norway.