The beginning of the fall of the Catholic Church in Ireland (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/the-beginning-of-the-fall-of-the-catholic-church-in-ireland-1.4871562
Its hard to believe the power they had over the state up to very recent years. NMH lands is still a debate, but I'm glad people can chose to follow religion (if they wish).
You could be onto something there in fairness. Why not an entry fee for every Mass, say €2 per person or a fiver for a family - with an supplemental charge if you want to drink the wine?
Or better still, why not let people pay to purchase letters of indulgences to get forgiveness for their sins? That seemed to work for the Church in the past.
Really this is fairly obvious - the established political parties and civil service.
Never said free. What's wrong with an invoice and an electronic payment?
“want to drink the wine”. I’ll just leave that there so it can speak for itself.
I’m starting to think that it’s a very long time since you were at a catholic mass, possibly never? And that you don’t actually know never mind understand anything about it beyond that fact that you hate it obsessively, to the point where it consumes you?
As part of my wedding planner duties I pay the donation to the church on behalf of the couple. I’ve never failed to get a receipt and the option is always there to pay by card.
You do know that the RCC is a registered charity for taxation purposes?? What “profit” do you imagine they’re making?
Wedding planner and control freak. Your ramblings make sense now! 😂
Where am I rambling?
Are you suggesting that the wine isn't part of the catholic mass?
I'm surprised you have time for wedding planning with all the work you do helping couples get annulments? Hopefully they're not the same couples, or that would suggest some extraordinarily negligent wedding planning.
Tell me, what utopia have they gone to?
Going by the ops profile picture Dubai or Plyda Del Ingles
Yep your definitely the type of person who would find it hard to have any more then 1 thing going on at the same time….
Changed it.
It's rather unfortunate for your wedding planning/annulment business that fewer than 40% of weddings in Ireland now take place in a catholic church.
Couples are actively choosing to avoid the RCC but when they have kids, they have no choice and are forced to enrol them in religious ethos schools.
Boatload of profits. Ever been to the vatican?
Not just there. So many cathedrals on this island, and monies collected from desperately poor people during the Famine as 'tithes.'
Herself likes to point out that the local former convent, An Diseart, with its parquet floors and stained glass windows (the current ones aren't original) was being built while her family was living in the poorhouse in Leitrim waiting to emigrate to the US. At least the Quakers supported the poorhouse.
No answer to the utopia question?
It would be an interesting experiment if the likes of that church charging for Communion day was to be the norm across the church and indeed for all church events, including mass.
Would people agree that each mass was a charge of €5 (say) and funerals, weddings etc were charged by head.
Would people still be so religious? Sports clubs etc have to do this (memberships fees or whatever) but only members could avail of the services.
Ticketmaster's ears just pricked up.
Appropriate for this thread imnsho:
I'm not entirely sure how you'd assume church events, weddings, funerals and anything to do with schools for that matter are currently zero cost.
To the point where €5 charge (of a few hundred for that matter) has any significant influence.
People have been blathering on about it being a business and such. What did you think that meant.
It is a business, but not directly paid for by the customers. It is paid for, including many other areas, by tax free status. By the monies generated in the past that lead to rents and funds generating revenue.
My point is that if the actual customers were to be charged either a yearly membership or a per event fee, what would that actually do to the people who say they are catholic?
Would people continue to go to church is there was an actual cost for it? Because there is a cost, but it is covered by other means. If the priest actually charged by the hour to visit the schools, would schools be so happy to pay it?
If a baptism suddenly cost money per head, different times were different prices, group vs single. You know like a normal business. But the church can hide behind its vast wealth built up over many years when it had so much control.
Not paid by customers. Yeah thats not how it works.
So its entirely normal for a state broadcaster to turn up to a primary school and interview school children about their opinions on political protests while waving around their signs that they intend to bring along to a political protest when they should be in school?
Was probably normal carry on in communist countries alright
Not sure I follow. What point are you making?
I’m not sure it would do anything tbh. People make financial contributions to their Church all the time in the form of donations for one thing, then there’s the collections at mass, then there’s bunging the celebrant a few quid for performing the various sacraments, then there’s the whole education thing which people seem quite happy to pay for, as more people are enrolling their children in private schools which are run primarily by religious organisations.
It’s easy to forget that religious schools aren’t publicly funded because they provide religious education, they’re publicly funded because they are teaching the national curriculum and providing an education to the nation’s children, who’s parents want that form of education for their children. Religious organisations are private organisations providing their services to the public.
Being publicly funded doesn’t mean they aren’t permitted to discriminate against anyone, nor does it mean that they aren’t permitted to control how their organisations are run. You can imagine it would cost the State a lot more in financial terms if schools weren’t run and managed by volunteers, and instead were owned by the State, and run and managed by employees on the public payroll.
The State can’t even manage the government of a single hospital, never mind thousands of schools!
Its normal (traditional) to pay a "fee" for those services already.
Is it entirely normal for a state broadcaster to air a call to prayer twice a day?
RTE is in the pocket of the Catholic Church.
A German-style church tax would flush out all of the bouncy castle types.
Define "normal"
Is it not a thing in other countries and religions, cultures.
People do not pay a fee to go to mass. Or to have a communion.
I'm not saying they should charge, that would really drop the numbers and so it falls on those really committed to pay for those that aren't.
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