With the leader of the main Unionist party applauding speeches calling the GFA 'iniquitous' and 'deceit' are the upcoming elections a test for the seminal agreement?
It's hard to know what will happen if the DUP manage to get their vote out and maintain the majority vote.
He asks about Northern Ireland staying as is, and you revert to the history books back to the 1960s. All so sadly predictable.
Why not?
There are extremists and fanatics on both sides, most people in the middle are fed up with both of them.
Those days are over but it seems you want to talk of the past... Today is first day of new game... There is alot of meetings today so i am hopeful they will find a place where the assembly up and running... The DUP need to be manouvered to work with SF... This i expect what happening in Belfast today...
To be bluntly honest, there will be those, partitionists and members of the FF/FG/Gr government who will pine for the days they could ignore DUP supremacism, bullying and denial of rights. Those days are firmly over and they need to come to terms with the change. The DUP haven't as yet.
Do you really think that NI can stay as is indefinately... that is really what this is about... sooner or later this needs to be adressed... the result of SF being in the position brings this closer so i expect long term thinking needed for NI starting today..
I don’t think it’s correct to say that SF are only supporting the Protocol because the DUP oppose it. There hasn’t been any major change to SF’s stance on these Brexit-related matters that would suggest it, plus it wouldn’t make any strategic sense for them to do so either.
While it’s true that SF will be happy that the Brexit debacle has and will continue to damage Unionism the longer is trundles on — they also can’t go around advocating any stance that would risk making them the advocates for hardening the Irish border in any way. To oppose the Protocol is to risk something like that, which would certainly not go down well in the border regions where SF have strong electoral support.
SF support the Protocol because, while further British cock-ups of the situation will play into the hands of Nationalism and Softer Unionism, they know that their voters don’t want even more Irish partition.
Yes you can look at it both ways, certainly a prosperous NI will be more attractive to southern voters. But it's also a 'dangerous game' in that a prosperous NI may just settle long term into a happy sort of devolved state.
Personally I suspect that SF enthusiasm for the NI Protocol is as much about that the DUP etc is opposed to it. The SF tune might well change if suddenly the DUP had a Road to Damascus conversion?
Who rejected that one again?
You clearly didn't read the post. I didn't give SF credit for the protocol, that belongs with the British and Unionism.
Tactically, SF have played Brexit and the Protocol very well. You can see new alliances and understandings forming as we speak.
Your fixation on the DUP is interesting. You concentrate so hard on the bogeyman that you miss so much that is happening elsewhere.
Nationalist vote plateauing, Sinn Fein down on the 2019 Westminister elections, the surge of people fed up with the sectarian extremes, the failure of SF yet again to attract transfers from anywhere etc.
I will tell you one thing that is true - Sinn Fein are like Moses, useful for wandering in the desert, but they are not able to bring people to the Promised Land.
Furze is right also, a NI better off economically because it is in both the UK and the EU, won't throw that away for a united Ireland. You are giving credit to Sinn Fein for the Protocol, because you love that the DUP hate it, but you don't see the bigger picture that it pushes a UI further away if it works.
Comical Ali strikes again.
The Teresa May deal was far better for Northern Ireland than the Protocol.
In expect there is alot more going on than we know... Boris clearly wants the assembly running which is a major step forward...
It is also significant that Michele O'Neill and MM are meeting this morning... thats alot in one day... I expect today a big day for all concerned...
There has always been room to alter within the Protocol.
Boris is essentially coming today to placate the ERG. Don't expect much.
Resolved great...
It seems you have info that Boris has a compromise... i do not know why all the shouting from politicians if its sorted and Boris is coming over to confirm... I was of the impression the protocol could not be changed... seems it can...
'We' have found a resolution M.
Boris will underline it today, a few changes and the Protocol stays, ILA and Womens Rights will be delivered etc etc.
Then we'll see who wants to be democrats. Plenty of blame to come yet and the US and EU are going nowhere I fancy.
There are few parties dancing around this blaming the other guy... i expect we will have to find a solution on the Island... The blame game is over... I expect if we don't find a resolution people like EU and US will lose interest... where will we be then...
??
They have no choice in the matter today. The choice has been removed.
I was talking about medium to long term strategy.
You'll never see the power swap fans give them credit for getting the Brexit solution right. They played a blinder there IMO, convinced Dublin that the only way forward from an all island point of view was a special status for the north. Once they grasped that, SF sat back and let Dublin lead, putting them on a collision path with belligerent Unionism. Nobody in Dublin government or these islands can now be unaware what a brick wall that belligerence is or about the the nature of it.
What will they be waiting for... are you suggesting they do not want the position of 1st minister today... SF have a mandate now and i am thinking they do not want it... I am getting the impression that SF do not want UI ansd they want a cozy arrangement in NI with DUP like we have in south with FF/FG... Somehow i don't think thats going to be a runner...
I suspect SF are playing the long game again. They know it has little to do with the Protocol and more to do with the DUP unwilling to truly share power.
We have all seen it over the abuse of the POC and their reaction to SF becoming biggest party.
You also seen people voting tactically, ignoring the SDLP and moving to the Alliance.
I don't know, but I think SF's next move is to get the Irish gov to make the move for a UI, whether that is a government they are part of or otherwise. A UI is no longer just about history and republican aspirations, it is and will be about an economic and prosperity issue too.
If that happens those middle ground voters that can be persuaded come into play. The amount of Alliance transfers to SF in the election will encourage this.
If that is the strategy then an economically better placed NI is what you would want. The more the DUP agitate to make that a precarious status the better for SF and a UI.
Today is about what UK wants in my view... The UK are out of the EU so there will have to be a compromise kin NI politics to move forward... I expect that he will do whatever necessary... The only two options available i can see are for DUP to participate in the Assembly or for changes to protocol... Boris has a very strong hand at the moment... he came to NI immediately as the vote collapapsed on Friday so its top of agenda... Looking south does not seem to be happen as i do not think too many want to come south at thje moment...
Would it not make more sense to let the DUP have what they want?
No, because that's not how a democratic process works.
You're not seriously suggesting that the majority of the North have their wish ignored, just to appease the DUP are you?
Ludicrous.
It's hard to figure that strategy out. The protocol is a pretty good deal for NI business and if accepted and taken advantage of, could make NI a more prosperous and viable entity. That's counter intuitive to a united Ireland in several ways. Would it not make more sense to let the DUP have what they want and let them drive the NI economy down a big hole? Then SF can say... look south boys & girls, they'll do a better job for ye? Of course, border controls would have to be implemented on the island but that would also be anti business and not popular with NI residents either.
Mr Wilson looks a bit worse for wear in that clip, post election hangover?
We hardly heard from Sammy during the election, he and Paisley were kept away from the hustings and you can see why, stumped on a question, just bluff it.
SF were advocating for special status for NI before even FG were.(Enda ruled it out in 2016)
Anyway, are SF fully 100% behind the Protocol?
Or just in favour of it as long as the DUP/TUV are opposed to same protocol?
I seen this guy on tele thw other day but only realized now what he up to as i was doing something and just got the end...
Seems didn't go too well...
I think the real historic day will be when SF confirmed as First Minister... it looks like UK are doing their best to make it happen...
I meant to say this earlier but forgot...
Historic day regardless of your politics.
My own opinion is the UK Government simply have to find a way to install as first minister as once this happens the equality of the parties is absolutely confirmed... I am hoping that this is the case and each side UK and EU will be able to tweak for this to happen...
I think the language is being ratcheted up because of the election — not the NI one but rather in Great Britain. The Tories took somewhat of a hit in the election and now they want to revive the themes that have helped them make a punch in Labour’s heartlands — English Nationalism (dressed up as Europhobia) and immigration. They are drawing the battle lines on these topics to make Labour look weak while the Tories go full jingo. They want to recreate that Britain vs Brussels spirit because it alway works.
The thing here is quite simply the lack of an alternative. The legislation to scrap the Protocol hasn’t appeared yet and even if it does, it’s hard to see how it can actually do anything other than make NI’s situation even worse if it’s going to be some unilateral torpedo to the arrangement. It is almost entirely counter-productive for the Tories as it isn’t going to fix the the problem (only make it worse) and piss off just about everyone aside from the DUP and few of the usual Brexiteer high priests.
It makes sense from the Tories’ perspective to play brinkmanship over the Protocol to force Labour’s hand and then pillory them for it, but actually going as far as to unilaterally torpedo the Protocol seems counterproductive for them. Unless of course, and this is probably one for the conspiracy threads, Westminster has sniffed from the NI election that making an absolute shambles of NI might be the answer to forever ridding themselves of it.
