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Do you actually need physical deeds of a house nowadays?

  • 08-05-2022 3:15pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,644 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    Are there physical deeds still, or are the details of ownership/sale stored online nowadays?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    There is a bundle of documents, yes.

    Ownership details of most plots of land is registered, and there is an electronic database, yes.

    See www.landdirect.ie

    However, the bundle of documents contains much more info than what you can see on Land Direct.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,644 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    So do you need the physical deeds? If everything is registered electronically?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes, owners should keep the documents safely.

    Some people suggest putting them in a safe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,401 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Yes you most certainly do need physical deeds.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,644 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    I went on to that website...

    Is there a website/electronic record of who owns a property i.e. if you wanted to sell it, do you need the deeds?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,644 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin



    And I know this was the case in the past. But now with electronic registers, are deeds required to prove ownership...or is ownership recorded somewhere now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes, if you want to sell a house, you need the title documents.

    If the owner doesn't have the title documents, it is possible to re-constitute them.

    A sol would be required for that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The Property Registration Authority (PRA) is the State organisation responsible for the registration of property transactions in Ireland. Our role is to provide a system of registration of title (ownership) to land, which is comprehensive and readily accessible.

    The Property Registration Authority (PRA) was established on 4 November 2006 under the provisions of the Registration of Deeds and Title Act 2006.

    The Authority is a statutory body whose members are representative of the main users and consumers of property registration services. The PRA replaced the Registrar of Deeds and Titles as the “registering authority” in relation to property registration in Ireland. Liz Pope is the Chief Executive of the Authority.

    The main functions of the PRA are to manage and control the Land Registry and the Registry of Deeds and to promote and extend the registration of ownership of land. The PRA also operates the Ground Rents Purchase Scheme under the Landlord and Tenant Acts.

    https://www.prai.ie/



  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Just looking at that landdirect site.... I cant pull up any details but see some houses are green crosshatched and other indicated in red. What is significance? I thought our place was centrally registered and that the deeds are just of historic interest. I wanted to check what is down for us as the house numbers in the estate were changed about 5 yrs after we purchased.



  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Pomodoro




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,152 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Not all titles are registered. universal compulsory registration only started in 2011. It applies to sales after that time. Before that compulsory registration did not apply to all titles. It will take decades before all titles are registered at the current rate of progress. If a title is not registered the owner certainly needs to keep the deeds



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭old_house


    The 2011 date is correct for Dublin and Cork, but other parts of the country have been using the folio/title system for longer. So, if you buy outside of the two main cities there is a very high probability that you will not receive (or need) physical deeds. In reality only Dublin is lagging behind and even there more than half of all properties are now registered. Your solicitor will tell you where you stand, but the digitally stored and state guaranteed folio is most likely all you will ever need to prove ownership of a property. See here for more detail: https://www.prai.ie/land-registry-services/



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,152 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    there were only three counties in the compulsory registration system until 2006, when four more were added. There are unregistered titles all over the country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭old_house


    You are not wrong, but the probability of finding an unregistered property is rather low outside of the capital. And even there it's less than 41%.

    "93% of the total land mass of the State and almost 90% of the legal titles in Ireland are now registered in the Land Registry. As the map below illustrates, almost all legal titles in several counties are now registered."



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,152 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    There are lies, damned lies and statistics. Most farmland is registered as a result of the property confiscations of the early 20th century. Urban titles are much less likely to be registered. Second hand houses in older urban areas would only be registered if the changed hands in the last 15 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭bb12


    yes deeds are important. it costs a lot of money to replace them if lost...used to be about 5k years ago but probably more now



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,283 ✭✭✭arctictree


    I dunno about that. Don't you just order them from the land registry? About 25 euro?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No, that's the cost of ordering a registered folio. Read the thread, not every property is registered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭old_house


    It's kind of confusing. Just to sum it up again:

    There are two different systems to record the ownership of property in Ireland. The registry of deeds is the original one, where someone holds a collection of physical paper documents which show records of historical ownership, burdens, sales etc., sometimes going back centuries. That system has been increasingly replaced since the "new" land registry system started operating in 1970. Here you don't have physical documents anymore, since all details are recorded in a digital "folio", the accuracy of which is guaranteed by the state. It has been the mandatory registration system for all changes of ownership in the whole of the country since 2011. You can only be registered in one of the systems, meaning you have either a collection of physical deeds or a digital folio.

    By now the vast majority of properties and 93% of the land mass in the state are represented by a folio and do not have physical deeds attached anymore, including all properties that have been build or sold since 2011. Any sale leads to mandatory registration now, so as a buyer you will not be handed the deeds of the property but instead a folio number in the digital land registry. Deeds will be a thing of the past in a few years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,152 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    If you are buying a previously unregistered property, you will get the deeds and you will have to apply for registration. It will take decades before all titles are registered. Even in the counties which have had compulsory registration for more than 50 years, there are many unregistered titles.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭old_house


    Yes, my mistake. You are right in that the purchaser is responsible for starting the registration process within 6 months after closing. I thought it was the vendor, because I once bought a house that had been built in the 1950s and it was already registered, even though it had never changed hands before. Apparently you can voluntarily register property even without sale or maybe they lost the deeds at some point, I don't know.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Registration began in 1892 for certain things. You'll find properties not sold for decades before compulsory registration on it.



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