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Suspect rental price is higher than it legally should be.

NeptunesMoon

I'm on the hunt for a new place and am interested in one place. Have spoken to LL and they said the last tenants moved out a year ago and they did some work on the house since, rewiring some plumbing etc. Nothing extensive such as increasing floor space etc. I'm sure the rent they are asking for is far more than what they are legally allowed increase it by. From what I know, the property would need to have been vacant for 2 years, or have had extensive refurbishment done on it. I don't think either is the case.

The thing is, the market is so bad right now, they've probably loads of demand at the price they've listed it for and I don't want to jeopardise my chances of actually securing it by trying to barter as they'll probably get the asking price easy.

If I end up getting the property, is there anything that can be done once I'm in, to reduce the price back to what it should be?

What would be considered "extensive" if floor space wasn't increased, or is floor space being increased a must in order for the price to be increased legally?

Cheers!

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044643#Comment_119044643

A home may be a need, so is food, but you have no entitlement to either being affordable to you. Maximising profit on an investment is not exploitation.

So the LL has to fill in what the previous rent was?

NeptunesMoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044601#Comment_119044601

I'd agree with you on that, but the link above specifically states the areas that must be improved upon to qualify for an exemption. Rewiring, redecorating, new furniture etc wouldn't make a difference, neither would a new boiler unless it increases the BER rating the required number of points.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044617#Comment_119044617

Did you tell them and did they do anything about it? I think the lack of action from tenants on these issues is part of the reason why so many are getting away with it. If it was common for these cases to be brought to light, then there'd be far less exploitation.

NeptunesMoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044656#Comment_119044656

If you don't see issue with people's homes and security of tenancy being at the mercy of investment funds and profit maximisation and how this has contributed to the mess of housing, I'm guessing you may be on the side who are benefiting from the situation. Profit and exploitation are almost interchangeable by definition, but maximising profit is undeniably exploiting a situation for gain.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044691#Comment_119044691

Are you happy to be looking for another place in 6 months time - because that is what is going to happen if you pursue this issue.

rightmove

Hi OP,

You seem to be the litigious kind so if you think you can take a case and win, go for it. You want to anyhow as the laws are ridiculous and rtb favoous tenants and you just want to exploit them for your benefit, RIGHT?. You dont make the rules and all that.

However I suspect that the LL will probably try to sell the property shortly after dealing with you and there will be one less property to rent and you are hammering in another tiny tiny dornail in coffin of the rental market.

Good luck to ya

squigglestrebor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044639#Comment_119044639

But illegally putting the rent up on your property is not a sneaky way of doing business?

TheW1zard

So you planned a case against the landlord with the RTB before you even moved in!? Wow

maestroamado

You said place refurbished so i expect its covered... get somewhere else as you will not be happy there...

Ginger83

OP if you find the proof that you are accusing the landlord of it is your right to ask the rtb to investigate. Whether things are found in your favour is another matter.

I have to say you are coming across as a problem tenant who took on a property you cannot afford. You might think the clever thing to do is wait until you move out but remember it's a small world and landlords talk.

As I said it's your right to bring a case but just be sure you are correct.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044691#Comment_119044691

For your own peace of mind OP, you have got to separate your personal rental situation, and your views on the state of the rental economy generally. These are two different problems.

For what it's worth, I agree with you generally on the LL's likely tactics, but you're trying to have you cake and eat it.

You're entering an agreement that you're deeply unhappy about, with an intention to have it amended and refunded later. You're going to be left with a very very sour taste in your mouth when the landlord drags out the case as long as possible while you pay rent in the meantime, and eventually produces receipts which the RTB reluctantly concede meet the absolute bare minimum of "Substantial Change". You'll get notice of intention to sell the following day in the post - guaranteed.

The best thing you could have done was walk away, while telling the LL that you would inform the RTB of their actions to hopefully worry them a bit. The second best thing you can do now is let it go, and report it just before you move out, and see how you get on.

NeptunesMoon

Cheers for the helpful replies.

Whether it'll be a wise move to act on it due to the unfortunate situation of the rental market is going to be the question. It's certainly the sign of a broken system when a tenant would be afraid to act on what they suspect to be their LL breaking the law to the tenants detriment, in fear of again being in a difficult situation trying to find somewhere to live after doing so because the market is so ridiculous.

Also, I wouldn't have moved in if I couldn't afford it. There's a difference between not being able to afford something, and not finding justification for the price of something you need, regardless of being able to afford it. I'd also advise those making remarks about what kind of a tenant I am, not to judge so quickly. If a LL is acting within the law and doesn't try and do wrong for their benefit, they have nothing to be concerned of.

So putting the accusations and judgements aside, would anyone know if a case was to be brought say in 2 years, would I be entitled to the overpaid rent for those 2 years, to be refunded?

Also, is there a way that this could come to light, without the tenant being the one who has highlighted it, such as RTB seeing the price difference between current and previous tenant and it being well over the legal allowable increase?

Deeec

Neptunesmoon How much do you think the LL has illegally upped the rent - what is the amount we are talking about?

porker36

After reading these threads im so happy my rented apartment is on the market to be sold!! and im done with been a landlord

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044670#Comment_119044670

They asked so I told them what I had been paying. Didn't follow up, it's between them and the landlord.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044644#Comment_119044644

People say 99% certain all the time for stuff they think is any way likely, it's semantics. "Literally" doesn't mean literally any more either. Not really the point of the thread.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045303#Comment_119045303

Best day of my life was when I was handed the keys back by my (ex) “the world and it’s uncle should pay for me and my problems” tenant and I watched the back of him walk away.

Better than my wedding day and birth of my two daughters 😂

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045378#Comment_119045378

Considering the op is discussing a claim in the RTB, it would seem odd to most that you would be referring to semantics/literal meaning when I pointed out that the op appears to have no evidence to support either his/her suspicion, nor an RTB claim. Surely knowing precisely what the previous tenant was paying is necessary to be “certain” and would be required for a claim to succeed?

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045620#Comment_119045620

I'm just saying that the phrase "99% certain" is pretty much meaningless, it's a turn of phrase.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047465#Comment_119047465

What is your problem? If the op claims that the rent is above what is allowed and wants to enter a dispute with the RTB, it would seem particularly important to have the previous rent paid. I fail to see how either the literal, or turn of phrase applies without that vital piece of information.

Put simply for you, if you want to compare two prices, you need both prices for comparison.

NeptunesMoon

If I'm actually going to pursue this, it would be on the basis of obtaining sufficient evidence. The purpose of the thread is to get details about the situation, not to bicker about the semantics or how I can be 100% certain etc.

So I'm wondering, if it's a case where I'd be entitled to the difference in rent paid back, even if I was to bring the case about 2 years from now, would I get the overpaid rent back for those two years?

Also, is there any possibility of this coming to light without me being the one to instigate any investigation, so RTB assessment or similar that will flag the rent being higher than the legal amount it should be based on the last rent amount and time in between etc.

Eircom_Sucks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058244681/suspect-rental-price-is-higher-than-it-legally-should-be

snake

how dare you , anything that can be done ............

go buy a place , be cheaper than renting

NeptunesMoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048520#Comment_119048520

Fantastic advice. So suspecting a LL is taking advantage of crazy rental prices and people's desperation by raising the rental price of a property higher than it legally can be, and wondering if this is the case, what can be done, is being a snake?

TheW1zard

Did the OP sign a lease, knowing he planned to drag the LL through the RTB once in? Was he happy to sign the contract even though he suspected rent was possibly incorrect? Sneaky stuff.

NeptunesMoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048726#Comment_119048726

What would you have done if you had to be out of our current place and couldn't find anything else?

SteM

Zero chance imo.

maestroamado

Where are you i wonder...

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119048618#Comment_119048618

I do agree the rent cost too high but you blaming an individual not on....

NeptunesMoon

I'm in a RPZ.

I'm not blaming an individual that the rent cost is high, but the knock on effect of rental prices going up in a market where there is far more demand than supply is allowing others to charge such high prices. The system is clearly broken and although they aren't singularly to blame for that, I'd rather have the money than contribute to their fortune.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049099#Comment_119049099

Most landlords are not rich. You need to drop that chip from your shoulder Neptune's moon. The fact is you know nothing about this landlord.

You don't know how much rent the last tenent paid and you don't know what refurbishment the landlord done to the property yet you want to pursue this. You still haven't mentioned how much you think you are being overcharged. All you will achieve it s that the landlord will sell this property - where do you go then?

Can you not see that there could be consequences for you if you run with this. Landlords/ agents do talk and your name will be blacklisted. Believe me Ireland is a very small place. You will find yourself unable to find a property to rent and potentially homeless.

DataDude

Don’t get backlash against OP here. Only way RPZ rules can be adhered to is if tenants hold landlords to account. If everyone did what people are suggesting and either just accepted the rent or went somewhere else, then RPZ rules would be rendered moot (without independent verification which I understand doesn’t happen).

OP fully entitled to check if landlord is compliant with the law. If he’s mistaken and landlord has not any broken law - no harm no foul, he’s paying his full rent landlord loses nothing. If landlord has broken the law, then he should be punished accordingly and the tenant compensated.

OP, I think I read somewhere that the max fine is €15k so depending on degree of the overcharge (if any), probably best to not leave it too long. Personally I think you’d be doing the entire system a great service. Quite clear and readily admitted by RTB that many landlords are fragrantly ignoring the law. Only way this will stop is if people like you hold them to account. Anyone who has a problem with it - don’t break the law and you’ll have no problems. Simple.