Both of them have a common aim though, scrap the SCC.
Have the kinahans got a political ideology to hide behind and masquerade as so as we can call them out on it
As Marine Layer has posted, should be try and reach out to the Kinahans?
I think you're asking for a simple answer to a complex question there, Blanch.
If the focus is entirely on seeking that political objective regardless of the actions of Saoradh, then criticism would be entirely warranted.
If the focus is on bringing Saoradh into the fold of utilising exclusively peaceful and political action to obtain that objective, given their history I'd go so far as to say that SF have an obligation to try and do so.
I don't think these kind of back door comms with terrorist groups are in any way unusual to be honest. They certainly happened between Irish and British governments and the PIRA; we wouldn't have had peace in the North without them.
I'm very sceptical of the timing of the release of this two year old letter so close to NI elections. I'm also pretty disgusted by the exploitative nature of those trying to use Lyra McKee's death for political point scoring.
But there are no concessions
Would you give concessions to the kinahans ? Similar level of murders
What common strategy? Where was such stated? What is said is to move them from anti agreement politics. Should this not be encouraged or would you rather they are left doing what they are doing?
This thing of no concessions,was tried for decades by thatcher,it failed then and it will fail now too imo
If it saves a life of an innocent person,any outreach is worth it imo
There has to be a limit to everything
A time when the ship has sailed
There are no concessions available for dissidents
Having said that,there is no one that can talk them out of their nonsense other than Republicans that have copped on
You'd get the impression they're too far gone or secretly tolerated in Republicanism though
Are you not the guy,who simps for john hume doing exact same thing in reaching out to militants to work together peacefully?
99.99% is though
engage your brain...and not every critic of SF is a fg/ff supporter
Do you actually think it is ok for a political party in 2022 to seek a common strategy with terrorists toward a political objective?
Well, I suppose SF have supported Putin until recently, so anything is possible.
posters here are using the death of a woman to point score off Sinn Fein. Are you aware of that?
What’s your point, poster?
You know your successful when FF and FG supporters are singing from same hymn sheet as DUP and TUV
Vermin
SF are extremists underneath it all. Sure just look at the type of support they get here on this forum. There are plenty of posters that will outright defended the methods and the murders carried out by the brothers in the PIRA. So its not at all a surprise they want to get support from the dissidents.
SF doing an each-way bet.
It is really difficult to understand how a party like Sinn Fein thinks it can get away with building an alliance with Saoradh, the political wing of dissidents. Utterly shocking stuff.
Can't see SF hitting 40%, I think they are at max now and will as others have said go up and down by a few points. The thing is, its all well and good saying in a poll that you would vote SF but will that translate into actual votes in a GE.
As much as I would love to see FF and FG turfed out of government, I am still not sure on SF.
Unfortunate placement.
I'm basing my up one and down 2 polling on what opposition parties specifically FG have done in polls before,mid term of a government they were opposing
I've priced in SF in the high 20's to the low 30's in these threads since they decided to become the main opposition party
They were 33% last October for example and bopper up and down since
Beyond that level they'd need not to be consistently caught out on their budget maths
They might even have been in government now with FF if they'd been realistic about the Special Criminal Court back in 2020
If SF gains at the next election are at the expense of IFC and PBP and get into the low 30's with protest votes,they simply won't have the votes from the still 60% + including independents true centre T.D's to get into government
You need concensus
My confidence in SF getting that is low
Report today in the Sunday Times of Sinn Fein trying to make common cause with the dissident republicans that killed Lyra McKee. Unbelievable stuff in a normal democracy, but they haven't gone away, you know.
Their literally a bog standred left european party,most of policies can be interchanged with other european left parties
Its just the english (and to small extent american) political sphere have discourse so poisioned here,that anything approaching tax rich/wealth/corporations is met with drools of socialist/communist,
When in reality,with over 50% of population burning through savings to keep head above water,we are looking at a collaspe coming,that will make last recession look minor event and even larger swades of population left behind for good
I'm in full agreement that they're populist, I did describe them as, "promise everything to get your vote".
I'm not sure where your argument that they're not socialist and moving centrist comes from; I made the point that they're more Social Democrat than Socialist in response to your post that seemed to suggest you were calling them Socialists: otherwise I don't really get the context or relevance of your pointing out the failures of Socialism.
I think we're broadly in agreement on the quality of the Shinners, though I'm less optimistic than you are regarding their potential electoral success. A spell in government should give us an idea of their legitimate support versus the, 'send a message to FF/FG' support.
Regarding the 'up 1, down 2' comment, posters here have been confidently asserting that SF had reached peak support and that it would be, 'up 1, down 2' since they were barely polling in double figures. I suspect you're underestimating just how fed up huge swathes of the population are. An awful lot who would never have voted SF before are seeming more and more happy to hold their nose and do so to send a message.
40% would very probably have them close to an OM. FG won 76 seats in 2011 on the back of 36% FPV
at worst they would be forming a 'left coalition' unless they completely wiped out the rest of the left
I think SF are populist
All opposition parties have to be to an extent but SF are that on steroids
On canvass,everything is promised
On that basis,you cannot say what they are
At the rate they're going,they'll be centre,not left of centre soon
On that journey, their remaining job is to convince the sceptics
This particular poll is another one of those up 1 down 2,I'd expect if an election was held in the morning that the figure would be 28 or 29,which would like Marine le pen,leave them out again
Growing up in the North in a pretty underprivileged background and perhaps lacking the political nous to fully comprehend that promising =/= doing, I was certainly an easy mark for populist politics in my teens. As I got older and more cynical, the empty promises lost their impact.
As I started to do better financially, I never had the economic shift to the right that I was assured would come by those convinced they knew better. While I certainly find the small number taking advantage of our generous social welfare system offensive, I still feel the abuse is a price worth paying to avoid those in need falling through the cracks. I'm perfectly happy with the idea that because I've worked my way into a position of privilege that I'm in a position to contribute more than those who can't or won't. I don't think SF are any more socialist in reality than I am. They're Social Democrats, with a tendency to pander towards the low income side of things, so comparisons to legitimate Socialist states aren't really fair.
Economically incompetent with populist, 'promise them anything to get their votes' tendencies certainly, but the "32 county Socialist Republic' rhetoric is practically non-existent these days really though.
I do still understand the appeal of populism for the underprivileged and disenfranchised though. While even the cynical among them might be pretty sure the Shinners won't deliver what they want in reality, they know the establishment parties won't, and sure the Shinners might deliver on some of their promises even if they can't deliver on all of them.
The rise of populist politics is a symptom of a greater issue rather than the cause.
I'd be surprised if SF reached 40% in an election, it would get them into a government, probably with FF if they changed their stance as they'd take a lot if not all of the IFC and pbp seats in that and would struggle to get a coalition together if at all
I've no problem personally with Republicanism
I am one
I do with socialism and I do especially with populism because both are a lie that basically fool the fed up by promising the unattainable
Every country in the world that's fallen foul to socialism and populism have had a sore lesson learned
The most notable example being Greece of course
I've also a big problem with Russian cow towing which was an urgent recent SF flip flop
The Shinners will hit 40% before the next election. We are heading into a period of high inflation and shortages that have not been seen in living memory. Sinn Fein will tell everyone that they have the answer if we just elect them. If they are at the mid 30s now then 40+ is likely before this crisis is over. If FF FG had any sense they would collapse the government now (over the greens demands) and let the Shinners and their socialist coalition be in power when the **** really hits the fan in the next two years.
A record for shinners (too high imo)
FFG at well below 50% combined,never taught id live to see the day....may we,at long last dare to dream of seeing someone break their stranglehold on power here
I have seen first hand some of the accommodation being used for refugees. Mums and children sharing one bedroom. Sharing bathroom and kitchen facilities with numerous other families. How many Margaret Cashes or Erica Flemings would accept such accommodation? Yet, the refugees are not complaining. They are preparing to learn English in order to get jobs, as this is what they did pre war.
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