I see Mary Lou is joining the compo culture brigade with a defamation lawsuit against RTE.
So you only want to discuss Leo and Maria in terms of TD's suing and not all the other SF TD's who for many years have sued?
If you are, tell me what you think about Gerry Adams suing the BBC?
Case below
P.S. You are trying to silence me now about Chay and Paddy. Paddy introduced them into the conversation when he tweeted. Not me!!
Ah, tweets are ok now with BA....😁
Re: Adams -If somebody accused me of sanctioning a murder I would sue and to hell with anyone who objects.
What would you do BA?
Please tell us and don't run from this question too.
US-style freedom of speech is a very high standard and applies to everyone. It's why pornography can be published in the US, along with nonsensical non-pornographic things like Fox News and The Enquirer. But, it allows journalists (and the public) to speak freely. Imagine if the WaPO was prevented from publishing the journalism of Woodward and Bernstein who named names (John Mitchell was AG and was regularly highlighted by them as I recall.) In Ireland, they'd have been sued into inactivity because "Defamation" or other nonsenses. Not so when you have freedom of speech. And, if a journalist gets something wrong, the reputable ones print retractions. But there's no liability unless actual malice is proven - like the recently lost case by Sarah Palin versus the NY Times regarding some commentary on advertising done by Palin after a Congresswoman was shot.
If a public figure believes they were slandered, the bar is high for them to prove it. An individual, not so much. And, all the legal standards that flow down from that apply, so you can't yell fire! in a crowded theatre. But you can also organize your Communist party meetings and not be afraid of being censored or arrested.
And remember, it wasn't too long ago that "Blasphemy" was in the Irish constitution. Clear, unambiguous anti-free speech legislation in Ireland. Fortunately it got repealed.
All very interesting but I still don't know what exactly you are saying. Sorry.
You asked:
So in the pursuance of her job she can't be personally defamed or slandered?
My (overwordy) point was, in the US, she pretty much cannot. In Ireland (and the UK) she can. Threats of defamation suits in Ireland chill the public discourse in my opinion. Likewise I don't believe she should bring cases like this, it's too easy a way to suppress free speech.
So you think it was ok for Gerry Adams to sue and try shut down the media? even after the case was dismissed and the BBC could air the program? also making Gerry Adams pay the legal fees of both sides.
It seems you think it is ok for Sinn Fein to shut down the media when they are telling the truth because it is a bad image for Sinn Fein. is that what you are telling us?
I have never ordered anyone to be killed so why would the BBC do a show about me?
So basically you think a journalist can say whatever they want?
I think that is a dangerous place to go myself.
It might suit my politics sometimes but I know for sure it is a freedom that would bite me on the ass.
I accept that neither scenarios are perfect.
Neatly sidestepping the 'if' part of the question.
I think we are done here. You continue to be disingenuous and evasive.
You see Francie, I asked you about SF TD's suing papers, guess what your response is? attack me. Make snide little comments and run from the actual question.
So again, Gerry Adams tried to shut down the media, the case was awarded against him and he had to pay legal fee's for both sides.
This is clearly Sinn Fein shutting down the media on a negative story, what is your opinion on this attempt to censor the media?
What exactly is your point...anyone who sues a newspaper is trying to shut down the media?
Well, if Gerry and MLMD did that they are in good company are they not?
Will you answer that question? I doubt it...another pivot incoming.
So I raised the topic of Sinn Fein clearly trying to shut down the media and you respond with snide comments about me?
Again, is the case by Gerry Adam’s a clear example of Sinn Fein trying to censor the media
No snide comments about me, just discuss the topic
What snide comment?
I asked you an 'if' question and you ran a ,mile.
Try again, 'If you were accused by an anonymous person of sanctioning a murder what would you do'?
Pay attention to the hypothetical part of the question, you are NOT being asked if you sanctioned a murder.
The other question you ran from:
Are Gerry and MLMD in good company 'trying to censor the media'? as there have been many many politicians of all hues who have sued media.
For clarity, here is my position again: The right to redress for an individual trumps any concern about SLAPPS or concerns about silencing the media.
Do you believe a person has a right to redress? Yes or No
I answered the "if" question, read my posts and forget about the snide comments for once. I have nothing to do with Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams ordering people to get murdered.
You are again dodging the question, Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams tried to censor the media, Gerry lost and had to pay the legal fee's, do you agree this is just Gerry and SF trying to censor the media as it was a bad news story?
I absolutely do not agree. I absolutely uphold the right of anyone to seek redress, win or lose.
Adams has been accused of many things throughout his career. To suggest he tried to close down just one of these 'bad news' stories is just nonsense.
The BBC used an anonymous source to make the accusation. Legally they got away with it, but just imagine for a second if it was a FGer at the centre of such activity and an anonymous source was used...what would you be saying then?
What was your issue with Chay, Cosgrove and Leo again? 😁😁
The hypocrisy is dripping off your posts in fairness.
So you agree with Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams should be allowed to censor the media. Shocking statement to make but no surprise
So next one:
Gerry Adams trying to get his niece to put a gag on the press to stop them releasing the story on Liam Adams, do you agree that is it ok for Gerry to censor the media in this case as well?
It is worth noting that Sinn Fein knew fully about this case as they helped to hide Liam in the South
No, he wasn't right and I criticised him for this. I said he should have taken that moment to resign.
He made a mess of that situation and apologised for it.
I uphold anyone's right to seek redress...do you? You STILL have not answered that question.
As you are keen to discuss Mr Cosgrave...does this person have the right to redress BA, or is it only denied to SF members?
Coming back to this, no Leo has never said he did anything illegal. Some claim that he did.
I have no idea what the claim is which is why I have not passed comment.
For someone who is not passing comment you sure are posting again and again, giving your comment on the matter.
I have passed no comment on MLMD's case. How could I when none of us know what it involves or even what redress she is looking for.
Is Cosgrave the leader of the opposition and suing the national broadcaster?
You honestly cannot see any issue with this do you? You cannot see the overstepping of the mark of a politician in trying to shutdown journalists?
By the way Cosgrave repeatedly called out his former employee and called him a thief who stole from him. If you cannot see the difference it is because you don't want to see it.
C'mon. Do you see the bit you added?
I never said he did. What he did isn't up for debate, any criminality is.
Do you think people (whosoever) have the right to redress? Yes or No? Or are you too seeking to deny it to select people.
Sidestepping again.
MLMD is taking the case as a private individual, just like that person who is suing P. Cosgrave.
Absolutely predictable you would sidestep the answer because you would be admitting that you are only interested in denying the right to redress to 'certain other' persons.
Very good, carry on till you are carried off, I understand your motivations now.
Let move onto the next case
Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire sues RTE, for a comment made on a radio chat show. (we will leave the other TD in the article to next).
Do you think this is another case of Sinn fein and a TD going after the media to shut them down?
Seemingly this was the comments:
They were discussing a "fantasy cabinet" post election. A caller said Ó Laoghaire would make a great Justice Minister and Duffy sais something like "Oh would you really want someone like that having access to Department of Justice files? "
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/sinn-fein-td-in-defamation-case-against-rte-and-joe-duffy-39406594.html
Why did RTE pay out if they were right?
They lost for a reason BA.
Unless you are suggesting the courts are in on this attempt to shut down the media?
I honestly think the FG/FF folk here and on the media have gotten so used to defaming people without consequence they think it is a right now.
It's a chat show
Let's ask the question again, is this a case of Sinn Fein trying to shut down the media to negative comments towards Sinn Fein?
The mere fact that no one has much of a clue about her complaint shows us that the complaint itself is frivolous.
'it's a chat show'.
So not the media then? SF want to shut down chat shows now. 😁😁
A conclusion jumped to there with predictable aplomb, if I may be so bold.
