I see Mary Lou is joining the compo culture brigade with a defamation lawsuit against RTE.
I absolutely do not agree. I absolutely uphold the right of anyone to seek redress, win or lose.
Adams has been accused of many things throughout his career. To suggest he tried to close down just one of these 'bad news' stories is just nonsense.
The BBC used an anonymous source to make the accusation. Legally they got away with it, but just imagine for a second if it was a FGer at the centre of such activity and an anonymous source was used...what would you be saying then?
What was your issue with Chay, Cosgrove and Leo again? 😁😁
The hypocrisy is dripping off your posts in fairness.
I answered the "if" question, read my posts and forget about the snide comments for once. I have nothing to do with Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams ordering people to get murdered.
You are again dodging the question, Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams tried to censor the media, Gerry lost and had to pay the legal fee's, do you agree this is just Gerry and SF trying to censor the media as it was a bad news story?
What snide comment?
I asked you an 'if' question and you ran a ,mile.
Try again, 'If you were accused by an anonymous person of sanctioning a murder what would you do'?
Pay attention to the hypothetical part of the question, you are NOT being asked if you sanctioned a murder.
The other question you ran from:
Are Gerry and MLMD in good company 'trying to censor the media'? as there have been many many politicians of all hues who have sued media.
For clarity, here is my position again: The right to redress for an individual trumps any concern about SLAPPS or concerns about silencing the media.
Do you believe a person has a right to redress? Yes or No
So I raised the topic of Sinn Fein clearly trying to shut down the media and you respond with snide comments about me?
Again, is the case by Gerry Adam’s a clear example of Sinn Fein trying to censor the media
No snide comments about me, just discuss the topic
What exactly is your point...anyone who sues a newspaper is trying to shut down the media?
Well, if Gerry and MLMD did that they are in good company are they not?
Will you answer that question? I doubt it...another pivot incoming.
You see Francie, I asked you about SF TD's suing papers, guess what your response is? attack me. Make snide little comments and run from the actual question.
So again, Gerry Adams tried to shut down the media, the case was awarded against him and he had to pay legal fee's for both sides.
This is clearly Sinn Fein shutting down the media on a negative story, what is your opinion on this attempt to censor the media?
Neatly sidestepping the 'if' part of the question.
I think we are done here. You continue to be disingenuous and evasive.
So basically you think a journalist can say whatever they want?
I think that is a dangerous place to go myself.
It might suit my politics sometimes but I know for sure it is a freedom that would bite me on the ass.
I accept that neither scenarios are perfect.
So you think it was ok for Gerry Adams to sue and try shut down the media? even after the case was dismissed and the BBC could air the program? also making Gerry Adams pay the legal fees of both sides.
It seems you think it is ok for Sinn Fein to shut down the media when they are telling the truth because it is a bad image for Sinn Fein. is that what you are telling us?
I have never ordered anyone to be killed so why would the BBC do a show about me?
You asked:
So in the pursuance of her job she can't be personally defamed or slandered?
My (overwordy) point was, in the US, she pretty much cannot. In Ireland (and the UK) she can. Threats of defamation suits in Ireland chill the public discourse in my opinion. Likewise I don't believe she should bring cases like this, it's too easy a way to suppress free speech.
All very interesting but I still don't know what exactly you are saying. Sorry.
US-style freedom of speech is a very high standard and applies to everyone. It's why pornography can be published in the US, along with nonsensical non-pornographic things like Fox News and The Enquirer. But, it allows journalists (and the public) to speak freely. Imagine if the WaPO was prevented from publishing the journalism of Woodward and Bernstein who named names (John Mitchell was AG and was regularly highlighted by them as I recall.) In Ireland, they'd have been sued into inactivity because "Defamation" or other nonsenses. Not so when you have freedom of speech. And, if a journalist gets something wrong, the reputable ones print retractions. But there's no liability unless actual malice is proven - like the recently lost case by Sarah Palin versus the NY Times regarding some commentary on advertising done by Palin after a Congresswoman was shot.
If a public figure believes they were slandered, the bar is high for them to prove it. An individual, not so much. And, all the legal standards that flow down from that apply, so you can't yell fire! in a crowded theatre. But you can also organize your Communist party meetings and not be afraid of being censored or arrested.
And remember, it wasn't too long ago that "Blasphemy" was in the Irish constitution. Clear, unambiguous anti-free speech legislation in Ireland. Fortunately it got repealed.
Ah, tweets are ok now with BA....😁
Re: Adams -If somebody accused me of sanctioning a murder I would sue and to hell with anyone who objects.
What would you do BA?
Please tell us and don't run from this question too.
So you only want to discuss Leo and Maria in terms of TD's suing and not all the other SF TD's who for many years have sued?
If you are, tell me what you think about Gerry Adams suing the BBC?
Case below
P.S. You are trying to silence me now about Chay and Paddy. Paddy introduced them into the conversation when he tweeted. Not me!!
I'm not understanding what you are saying here?
Are you saying a journalist should be allowed to say whatever they want? Really?
Away out of that BA, what a lot of suit yourself nonsense.
There is no info on Mary Lou's grounds, so the conversation broadened out to discuss the wider issue where SLAPPS and the right to redress were being discussed.
You trying to censor that is hugely ironic in itself.
Nobody I noticed, got annoyed when you introduced Chay and Cosgrove into the discussion BTW, if you took time to notice that. I certainly didn't try to silence or censor you.
With respect, this is the legal position in the US. If you're a public figure like a an elected official or head of an important public agency (e.g., the HSE), you have an extremely high bar to meet when suing for slander. In Ireland, which appears to take its legal lead from the UK, that isn't the case and is a big chill on the public discourse.
Paddy Cosgrove and Chay Bowes made themselves relevant when Paddy started tweeting about Sinn Fein and RTE not giving them airtime. As the information I posted. Both are also linked to Sinn Fein and part of the online crew trying to censor anybody who isn't a Sinn fein supporter, examples already provided
"Piling on"? grow up. Piling on is exactly what Sinn Fein supporters are famous for doing online. Creating spreadsheet to attack TD etc. That's what the Sinn Fein online supporters are famous for. As I already said on this thread it's just another way to censor people.
Mary Lou is doing the same with the media,
No Leo and Maria are not relevant. , Leo is dragged into the thread because YOU and other drag him into every thread. It's just a disgusting obsession at this stage.
Maria was suing a private company after a private incident. It had nothing to do with her public life and had nothing to do with suing the media to shut them down. So totally irrelevant. But you are aware of that. TD are allowed a private life. Get over it.
The only party at the moment constantly suing the media is SF. SO if you want to discuss cases of other politicians suing the media which is relevant then I suggest you discuss the other SF TD's and why they sued? if you are so interested in other cases then why not discuss them as they are the exact same? or why not discuss Gerry Adams suing the BBC? or Gerry Adams trying to stop his niece going to the press?
One wonders where you concerns were when others threatened to sue blanch.
I get the concern about SLAPPS, but they are over ridden by my belief in a person's right to seek redress.
Until we know what redress is sought here, real democrats should not be commenting or trying to silence.
That is the point, not even you know. Out of the hundreds of thousands of people who have heard her interviews, nobody can identify a single thing that might be defamatory. All the appearances of a SLAPPS.
Sorry, not true. Been over this before.
Thread is not about me Donald.
This is a very clever move.
It reinforces this bollocks that RTE are part of the establishment and the only real hope for change is SF.
In the long term, when SF's many skeletons are falling out of their many closets, it will allow them to scream FAKE NEWS, RTE OUT TO GET US, and people won't be able to filter out the noise.
Then when SF get into power, funding for RTE will be slashed, new management will be appointed and the issue goes away.
This is the start of something very bad.
So show us the grounds on which she is suing blanch....please?
You're coming across as deluded Francie. I don't remember anyone else on the thread has "supported" any actions which have been highlighted. They merely brought them up to highlight your own, and others, hypocrisy.
The fact of the matter is that you blindly support anyone and anything once it has a SF badge on it. If MLMD was accepted back into her spiritual homeland of FF tomorrow morning and switched back, you'd be back furiously editing all your posts to severely criticise her past actions quicker than SF webadmins could scrub Russian propaganda from their website.
Yes, they had clear cause to sue, yet they stepped back from that escalation.
Mary-Lou has no clear cause, yet she has gone ahead. Those differences are sufficient to cause huge concern in relation to the threat to free speech and democracy. It is not just me who is saying this, I have already linked to the international concern around similar situations.
Hell, even the law society is concerned about the use of SLAPPS by politicians. And they profit from it.
Yet, there is nothing to see from the usual non-SF-supporting-defenders-of-all-things-SF.
Weren't you blathering about Paddy Cosgrove and Chay Bowes on this thread?
Leo and Maria are two politicians who 'threatened to sue'...why would they not be relevant in a thread where their supporters are piling on somebody who actually is going through with a claim?
Nobody lives in an hermetically sealed world. A world you want to seal up when it suits you.
P.S. I didn't introduce MB to the thread.
Maybe, just maybe you could answer a question that doesn't include "something something FG something something"
Every post is Leo this, or Maria Bailey that. Are you incapable of having a discussion about Mary Lou without pointing at something other person or party?
The inability of Sinn Fein or their supporters to discuss a topic without pointing at other parties doesn't bode well for been in government. What the plan then? who can you blame then?
They were even dissing poor dinny earlier. I'd much prefer if they put their party energy into governing and tackling their crises.
You are making things up i never said and then calling me out on your imaginings. You've made numerous claims based on complete fantasy.
I'll take it you've ran out of road. Happens.
What a load of apologist alternative universe waffle.
Only Varadkar knows why. Big man my arse but you are allowed your opinion of course. I think he was posturing to try brazen out his leaking.
Bailey was trying on a common or garden compo claim which she withdrew after publicly embarrassing herself once the details came out and it ended her political career. Her own dumped her.
MLMD is suing RTE and we've yet to find out the terms. However it whipped ye lads up and no mistake. Here you are rabbiting on about an online army Yadda yadda yadda.
