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San Francisco 49ers Discussion

adrian522

I thought it would be nice to have a 49ers thread on here. I think there are a few 49ers fans here and it will be good to have somewhere to debate issues without resorting to the main thread.

Anyway in order to get things started (and generate some talking points) I thought I’d go through the roster position by position and also do a little prediction at the end.

In typical 49er fashion I’ll start with the Defense:

Secondary:

I think the 49ers secondary is actually a weakness. They are reliant on the front 7 getting pressure and in 2011 they lived a lot on interceptions which can’t be guaranteed in 2012. Against the Giants, Lions and Saints they gave up a lot of yards last year if not a lot of points.
In 2012 the 49ers face games against the Saints, Giants, Packers, Patriots, and Lions. In short some of the best offenses in the league.

Safety:
Dashon Goldson failed to reach agreement with the 49ers on a long term deal and will play 2012 under the franchise tag. Barring an exceptional season it has to be expected that this could be his last season in San Francisco.
Donte Whitner is the other starting safety and is coming off a good season last year, including a game changing hit on Pierre Thomas in the Divisional game.
The 49ers starting safties are both solid but a lack of depth at the position is a concern.
Corner Back:

Carlos Rodgers, Chris Culliver

A couple of solid corners, generated a lot of picks in 2011, the question is if they dry up how will they hold up in coverage.
Tarell Brown is the nickel back and has shown some promise.
Front 7:

The 49ers front 7 is crucial to how the defense operates, last year they shut down the running game of most teams they came up against and were able to get pressure on the QB. The questions that remain to be answered are how would they deal with a few injuries and can they keep up that level of performance for a second year.

Inside Linebackers:

Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman
Not much to be said here other than you’ve got 2 of the best linebackers in the league. Very difficult to run against and very good in coverage too. Larry Grant proved an able backup last season but you have to think any sort of injury here seriously weaken the 49ers.

Outside Linebacker:
Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Haralson

Smith only really played on 3rd down and obvious pass rush situations last year and came within half a sack of the rookie record. Expect him to play every down this year. Whichever 2 start, you are probably looking at the best linebacking corps in the league and their performance will go a long way to determining how many games the 49ers win this year.

Defensive Line:

Isaac Sopoaga, Justin Smith, Ray McDonald
Justin Smith was immense last year and he was a genuine contender for DPOTY. For 2012 the niners need the D-Line to be just as dominant given the tough schedule they face this year.

Offense:

Quarterback

Alex Smith remains the starter, coming off a 5 INT season. The offense was run to play to Smith’s strengths and he was never really asked to make throws he’s not able too. He was helped out by the running game but even so 2011 marks easily the best year of his career. Given what Aaron Rodgers has achieved in Green Bay after SF passed on him Smith has always been under a huge amount of pressure. Expect the playcalling in 2012 to be a little less conservative with Alex asked to throw a lot more on 3rd down and also to produce more in the redzone. Expect more interceptions. The success or otherwise of the 49ers season will probably rest on how well Smith and the rest of the offense perform in those situations.
Colin Kaepernick remains the backup but this could change heading into camp, where Josh Johnson (who played for Harbaugh in San Diego) presents a challenge.

Wide Receiver

This is the area that the front office focused on most in the off-season. Mario Manningham and Randy Moss were added in free agency. AJ Jenkins was drafted in the first round. Michael Crabtree, Ted Ginn and Kyle Williams return from 2011. Obviously there are questions over most of these guys. Crabtree has yet to have a full training camp since coming into the league, while he was anonymous in the playoffs last year, only one catch for 3 yards in the championship game. Moss is 35, didn’t play last year and was ditched by 3 teams the year before. It will also be interesting to see how or if Williams bounces back after the twin disasters in the Championship game last year.
AJ Jenkins was a huge surprise in the first round of the draft and the soundings coming out of Santa Clara have not been good. He is said to be too lightweight for the NFL at present and little or nothing is expected from him in 2012.
Moss and Crabtree are the likely starters but if Moss doesn’t work out I don’t think Manningham and Crabtree will scare too many defences.

Tight End

Vernon Davis, Delanie Walker
Davis had an outstanding couple of games in the playoffs but showed some frustration early in the year when not seeing much of the ball. I expect a big year from Davis, I think 49ers will need that and he is capable of taking some coverage away from the receivers.

Running Back:

Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, Brandon Jacobs
It’s hard to know how SF will play the run this year. We can’t expect Gore to carry as much as he has been doing. Hunter did well at times last year and I expect progress from him. The second round pick from Oregon, James, is very exciting and I’m really looking forward to seeing where he fits in.
I’m not at all convinced by the signing of Jacobs and I’m not even sure he’ll make the final roster. If he does it’s hard to see how he’ll get much work unless Gore has to sit out due to injury.

O-Line:
Mike Iupati,Joe Stately, Jonathan Goodwin, Alex Boon, Anthony Davis
Daniel Kilgore probably the first backup.

Struggled at times last year, particularly at Baltimore but seemed to be able to get it together when it really mattered. The 49ers have drafted 4 O-Linemen in the last 2 drafts.
Pass protection will need to better this year if 49ers are to make use of the talents of Moss et al.

Special Teams:

David Ackers, Andy Lee.
Not much to say here, one of the best punters in the game and had a huge impact last year. Ackers is ever reliable and set some records last year. No worries here really. Rock Cartwright was brought in in the off-season and he will help out on Special Teams.

2012 Prediction:

Last year the 49ers won 13 games, didn’t allow a 100 yard rushing game until very late in the year, went to the NFC championship game, Smith only threw 5 picks, and to boot they didn’t have the toughest schedule in the league.
It’s very difficult to see the above being maintained for a second year. The schedule is brutal this year, no one will be underestimating us this year and everything will be more difficult.
Football Outsiders predict the 49ers will regress seriously and will only win 7 games.
I’m not quite as pessimistic. It may be unrealistic to expect a repeat of 2011 but I expect the 49ers to win the NFC West and win probably 10 games in the process. What will happen in the play-offs is anyone’s guess.

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Foxtrol

Looking like the Deebo trade isn't happening or if it does the teams are waiting to see who is on the board. Despite his antics I would be happy to keep Deebo around, feel that they'll be able to make things work after the draft passes and Deebo's potential landing spots shrink and he sees no one came in with a big offer for him.

Doubt we'll see Jimmy move as he isn't fit to throw yet but will be watching if the QB needy teams pick one of the top guys.

If no trade it'll be a quiet night but a very busy day 2 and 3 with 9 picks (only 7 teams with more). The team doesn't have too many holes so I expect some moving around if they like guys, though that hasn't worked out too well in the past and I'd rather them take more shots. Despite having no first round pick again next year they are expected to have 11 picks in 2023 (8 picks confirmed, including three 3rd rounders, and another 3 comp picks expected) so a lot of ammo to use from there if needed or ammo to use to trade for players once Jimmy's salary is off the books.

Presuming they keep Deebo they can nearly go best player available throughout. Depending on how they see the younger backup guys on the roster last season, the biggest potential holes would be S, C, OG, Slot CB. All those are positions that should have decent depth and are not as highly valued in the league so good guys could fall into a position where they could move up in the 2nd.

From Lynch's press conference it very much seemed like Mack will do a Staley and retire during or post the draft. I however wouldn't be surprised if the team brings in one of the veteran Centers rather than drafting one early and expecting them to start.

Another thing that wouldn't surprise me is if they grabbed and a speed Edge player in the 2nd if one they like falls, with a plan to pair with Bosa. The DL room is already overflowing but the team values the position highly and given how expensive it is to bring in a good guy in FA and their rentals departing each year they'll want to keep planning for the future with Bosa getting a huge deal soon.

Final thing I'd expect is them to take a WR with a lot of speed. They'll hopefully be opening things up more with Lance coming in and the team has brought in a few for visits that fit that mold

Foxtrol

Happy with how the draft went with an added bonus of a very strong UDFA haul. Keeping Deebo is a win in itself and the 49ers went for the most part best player available with a medium to long term focus and kept their picks, targeting multiple chances at getting the right guy rather than their historic approach to move up. Rather than getting star guys in the positions of lesser roster strength they built out depth with the hope that they have more chances to get lucky or at worst the best guy comes out from a camp competition.

Two out of the first three picks went along my 'wouldn't be surprised if happened thoughts'. Really loved the Jackson pick - at only 21 years old and having been messed around by his college coaches he should develop really well under proper guidance. Gray is the speedy WR that will stretch the field for Lance and ticks off the YAC ability that is a near must have for the 49ers. The other pick of day 2 should have been another obvious one given the recent team history with an RB - who actually appears to have a lot more in common with Sermon than Mostert or Mitchell. Either the 49ers are out on Sermon, which could be likely giving his lack of time last year, or they are doubling down on a shift in RB approach with Lance coming in. With the number of injuries the RBs face I don't hate drafting an RB, it is just a bit frustrating taking one early given how often they hit on late round guys. It was at the end of the 3rd round and the team doesn't have glaring weaknesses so can't complain too much.

Out of the six picks on day three, four of them fell into two areas where the team has questions. Two athletic OLs, Burford and Zakelj, who have experience at OT but could be shifted in to play OG, backing up the two guys drafted last year that were being groomed as OGs. Then two CBs, Womack who looks like he'll compete to be the new nickel (with that CB room boosted with the re-signing of Verrett) and Castro Fields who could either be looked at as CB competition or shifting into the competition at Safety.

The other two day 3 picks seem like an even longer-term focus, with Davis looking like a DJ Jones who due to injury will likely red shirt and 'Mr Irrelevant' Purdy likely to end up on the practice squad for a season due to Sudfeld's guarantee money. The latter really points to the team still expecting to get Jimmy out.

After many online complaints about the team not specifically focusing on certain perceived needs earlier in the draft, they ended up getting several guys in the UDFA pool that analysts had going in the mid-rounds of the draft and many would have been happy if they were picked at that stage. Tough to make it as an UDFA but again they've definitely added competition. At Safety they picked up O'Neal and then for center the picked up West (20 year old who started for 3 years) and Poe (who might even end up as a 300lbs FB - his highlight/workout videos of him catching balls on the run are a must watch). Still likely for Safety that if they aren't comfortable early in the offseason they'll bring in an FA option, potentially a return for Tartt, and also feel that if Mack retires they'll either bring in a veteran FA or shift Brunskill over but even if that happens it is good to have other potential options in camp. Given how well the team develops UDFA LBs, another player with a chance to make might be Gemmel if there is an injury.

Long wait now to see any proper action. Hopefully at some point before camp they can move on Jimmy for something and get deals done with Deebo and Bosa and they'll have had a very successful offseason.

myate

Before the Niners trade Jimmy G, can they please get him into the building to give a talk on how to deal with the media and all the crap they spew and how to ignore social media. The social media bit for what is being said about Trey Lance now. The media bit on the blow up between Kinlaw and Grant Cohn...if you haven't seen that check it out. Still on going even after a 'clear the air' chat with Lynch there also.

Ol' Donie

Well that was worth waiting for.

Sigh.

adrian522

So....that wasn't great.

Some of those penalties are just unacceptable. the two hits on fields while sliding are so stupid, the Greenlaw facemask, this all cost us points.

Then leaving Pettis wide the f**k open with no one on an entire side of the field....completely unacceptable.

It looks like the NFC in general will be a bit of a mess this year but the 49ers are looking like they have a lot of work to get done, starting with clearing up their penalties.

Foxtrol

Extremely frustrating and deflating result for the first game but I'm not overly worried due to everything that could go wrong went wrong yesterday.

49ers gave away idiotic penalties and made mental errors at the worst times, dealt with an injury before the game to a player who would have thrived in that situation and during the game to the only RB who was making gains, were on the wrong side of extremely soft ref calls, and the weather negating a lot of the strengths of the time and it even seemed to go out of its way to negatively impact the team further - drying up when the Bears were behind and the worst downpour when the 49ers were chasing.

Aside from Mitchell injury, the others shouldn't be issues moving forward - dumb penalties a lot easier to clean up than what many teams are dealing with.

Plenty of unsurprising overreaction online to Lance's performance. He was fine, some good and some bad. Jimmy performed similar in every bad weather game, made worse by not offering anything on the ground. This will be a good learning experience for him and he clearly has learned the post game PR move from Jimmy to take all the blame for the loss, even though plenty of others deserved it far more.

Great point above regarding the NFC - too early to call in week 1 but evidence so far is that the conference is going to be pretty bad. Even with an up and down Lance season they should still be in the race.

adrian522

myate

Bay Area sports radio is gonna be fun today, tomorrow, all week & then some. On a plus, Niners are a better team now & stacked even more so than 2019. No more "Jimmy would do this or that". It nearly came together with the Rams/Arizona loosing but they sneaked wins.

Onto TL. Sucks what happened but repercussions will go on for some time as he will now have yet another year (his 3rd) with little or no football play. He won't even be on the sideline like last year, won't be taking reps in practice. How this doesn't set him back even more is beyond me. 2023 could be a mess if the team reaches the championship/Superbowl with Jimmy. To roll with TL then would be like now or even worse. To roll ahead with Jimmy will cost a bomb...and what happens with TL then - bite the bullet & admit it didn't work & move on...the draft picks given for him will be done & forgotten anyway. Interesting times...and that's without the rollercoaster this season will be with Jimmy! He looked pretty good yesterday for a guy who had no offseason. He's €350k up and has a pretty smart contract now!

Foxtrol

Nearly a week later and still absolutely gutted for Trey. Only small positive is that he had a full camp as QB1, it could have been a contest splitting reps with him getting the nod. This is going to hugely impact his development buy freak accidents happen, unfortunately they just seem to impact 49ers players more than others.

Love Jimmy but not looking forward to teams parking the bus knowing he isn't going to push the ball down the field. We saw a few occasions last week of him being more aggressive, like pre injury Jimmy, but it went away pretty quickly.

Listening to most of 49ers media has been an absolute pain this week. Same people who lost their minds about keeping Jimmy as a backup are trying to distract from how wrong they were by now losing their minds about Shanahan play calling - with some absolute nutters claiming some conspiracy theory against Trey. He could have been ran less but over the last two weeks I saw similar built but far more experienced QBs making similar runs. There's a reason why they do it.

At least it isn't a lost season after week 2. The floor of the team is now higher, they just don't have the higher ceiling that Trey could have brought.

adrian522

Seems like some people needed a reminder of why the 49ers traded for Lance and why they willing to let Lance make his mistakes this year.

myate

That was a fantastic game...if you like punting! Mitch was certainly earning his new contract!! That's up there with the worst of Kyle's loses...talk about doing the same thing all game, even when it's clearly not working. As said in my above post, this year is already setting up to be a rollercoaster like last year! To hopefully make the playoffs, the team now needs to go 9-5 in the remaining games!

Chardee MacDennis

That stupid safety cost us in the end.

myate

Worse than the loss is Trent Williams high ankle....4-6 games.

Carcharodon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666343#Comment_119666343

Not really, got intercepted anyway so got lucky if anything.

Getting very very tired of Kyle, I don’t blame Jimmy, we know what we got with him, he had no pre season to prepare properly with the team, I know it should be second nature but it still matters

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667493#Comment_119667493

Not sure what the issue is with Kyle on this.

Looks like he played the who QB situation perfectly. Only way Jimmy gets reps in the offseason is if you take them away from Trey. Given that Jimmy performance even his biggest supporters have to accept that he doesn't look like a significant upgrade on Trey so we might as well go with youth.

If Kyle had cut Jimmy like many were demanding we'd be in an even worse position than Jimmy (not yet ready to call for Purdy but if he keeps playing poorly we have nothing to lose).

myate

The Jimmy vs Trey stuff...really getting tired with media & other crap about that. Regardless of the 'side' you're on, it's not like Trey is about to stand up and take the QB1 job back! Jimmy is in there for a broken ankle reason...that's all, otherwise Trey is in there, and he might have played like crap, who knows, we'll never know. That was a terrible Jimmy game, probably his worst..he can only get better! And until the team is out of playoff contention, we don't need to see Purdy. If for some reason they miss the playoffs, you absolutely gotta stick in Purdy to see him...he has a tonne more playing time than Trey and you never know!

Team first, I don't care who is under centre.

myate

Been a bit quiet in here lately! Might as well pop something on here as opposed to another thread elsewhere.

That scoreline doesn't sum up that win up in Seattle. That was legit. Purdy again was poised, had no throwing practice during the short week cause of the oblique injury. I watched that game & at no point did I miss Deebo...that's how well everyone else played. D again was something else. Greenlaw is now on Warners level.

Nice 10 day break before a good challenge in the Football Team, who right now would be the wildcard opponent but that'll change. The 2 seed is there for the taking. There's so many players still on the team that lost Superbowl 54 that won't be happy with anything but a win in February, they'll help keep things rolling.

Foxtrol

Not too bad being the 1st team to clinch their division despite being down to their 3rd string QB, who just played that game injured.

Really well set up for a run now, especially if they get the 2nd seed. If they're out of the race for that for some reason they can still even rest starters for the last game so guys are fresh.

myate

Game day! Weather forecast for Santa Clara is pretty awful. Worst of the weather due to hit in the morning right for the tailgate! Showery throughout the game, but it's the 4th quarter that has potential for downpours & thunder! Oh & lots of wind.

Niners need to do what they have to to essentially put this game away in the first half. Go into half time two scores up at least. The closer this game is at the half, the more Seattle could do something. Basically play like they have the last 6 games, good red zone, good D limiting points in the 2nd half especially...pressure Geno into mistakes.

9:30pm!! Game is on Sky Max also if you dont have Gamepass/Sky Sports.

myate

Well that atmosphere was nothing short of electric! Blew away the Divisional game I went to against the Vikings. Tense game to watch too! We're rolling still.

adrian522

Looks great. Atmosphere really came across on the TV too,

I thought the 49ers O-Line and D-Line really took over second half. 2 long drives essentially killed the game. When Dallas got the ball back with 3 mins remaining they went 3 and out for zero yards then punted.

SF should have iced the game there and then but Mitchell gave the cowboys one more shot by going out of bounds. Their final play was hilarious though.

Onwards!

https://youtu.be/YkBK0Y01hS4?t=2425

Foxtrol

Since 2011, aside from one year, the team has either made Conference Championship or lost 10 or more games. Always a rollercoaster for the fanbase.

3 out of last 4 years making it for Shanahan while never having a 'star' QB. An incredible achievement, hopefully no more mumblings of him getting sacked next time they stumble. He has his flaws but we're so lucky to have him.

myate

I've been to 7 Niners games, and this was the only one where I'd say most of the entire stadium, definitely our section anyway, was stood for the entire time except half time! So loud!

The 2 long Niner drives, and that Cowboy drive coming from RayRays fumble was a huge blow to them not getting a TD. And not often you're at a game wishing they'd run the ball & clock out!! Nobody left Levis until the last beautiful Cowboy play!! The locals knew it was the last home game until September, and anyone else coming from afar pretty much always stays until the end!!

myate

Going with my Niners tonight. Total underdogs by the looks of things...Philly this, Philly that, Hurts this, Hurts that. Hurts has done zip in the playoffs except beat a very suspect NYG...1-1 in playoffs. Purdy has done it twice, & against a stacked D in Dallas.

If Niners can get both sides playing at their best, they win. Recently always seems to be either a super D performance, or a superb O performance. Both need to come together now.

Like the Dallas game, expecting it to be close & pretty low scoring. Going 24-20 SF.

Foxtrol

Gutting loss - hurts to not even get a proper shot.

With this Purdy injury the offseason QB situation is potentially going to be even wilder than we might have thought it could be

myate

That loss was awful, although not a tearjerker like the Rams loss, probably because it was over essentially in the first when Purdy went out...more an angry loss, exactly like Trent 'bodyslam' Williams!

Absolutely agree...we were sorted at QB, Purdy, Lance & another backup. Now it's waiting on the MRI today. Before Purdy, mid season, I was a get Brady guy, and I'm back there if Purdy's injury is major. Brady, one year, all in. The guy just doesn't get injured. He can make all the short passes Kyle likes.

Niners can never have a normal QB off season!

cosatron

Tough loss yesterday. Is it part of shanahan's zone blocking scheme to leave a back up tightend trying to block a premeire pass rusher and it happened a second time for Johnson sack with a wide receiver trying to block him and is there protection issues going forward with all the qb injuries.

adrian522

I've no clue what was going on with the blocking assignments, I would hope the plan wasn't to block Reddick with a TE, unless the center messed up the call or something. It just makes no sense otherwise.

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176870#Comment_120176870

i know its crazy, especially early in the game when they have all the plays scripted.

Foxtrol

It was a play action shot play and Aiyuk was open for a huge gain, if not a TD.

Pretty common for a TE to be blocking on that and the QB knows there is likely pressure coming from there and it is on them to be aware and step up.

This happens for all teams, at one stage yesterday I think the Eagles had a WR or TE on Bosa.

It seem Kyle really cant catch a break (aside from a broken bone of a player... probably too soon). He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. He gets called out for not being aggressive last week and this week being too aggressive is used against him.

Similarly, he got slammed earlier in the year for rushing Lance and him getting injured while toast of the town Sirianni was calling power runs for Hurts in the 4th quarter on the way to the Super Bowl while his team was up 2+ scores against a team with no QB.

Players get injured and it is pretty random, it sucks but due to the nature of the sport you're never going to be in ideal situations - any of them can go wrong and lead to an injury.