In Cork, Bus Éireann services travel on 625km of roadway but just 14km - 2.2pc - is bus priority. A study by Jacobs Consultants on behalf of the company identified 25 pinch points where speeds fell to between 1kmh and 6kmh at peak times.
As part of the Dublin project, there were a number of apparent kite flying type proposals, seemingly designed to placate certain interests but ultimately generating enough outrage that a more reasonable solution prevailed (e.g. the parallel cycle route in Rathmines that involved knocking through a couple of schools and the barracks and another bridge over the canal before the sensible online solution at the expense of cars on the main road was adopted). The initial outline is always going to shake the vested interests out of the tree and battle lines will be drawn, doesn't mean that proposals we see now are set in stone.
By a non-cyclist. Even sports/leisure cyclists generally avoid the chosen routes there.
Fully agreed with your comments about detours/T-Junctions. In plain language, they just don't know how to design for bikes. They don't understand the issue of momentum. Something that is not an issue whatsoever in a motorised vehicle is a significant issue on a bike. Momentum is everything. Nobody designing cycling infrastructure in Ireland seems to understand the basics of this.
The cycling provisions on route B to Mayfield have clearly been designed either by a complete non-cyclist or by a very fit sports/racing cyclist who doesn’t even notice hills. It is unrealistic to expect occasional cyclists of average fitness (relative to overall population) to divert up York Hill and Gardiners Hill instead of staying on the mainline with its easier gradients.
Those only interested in the bus aspects of the new plan may well think “I couldn’t care less”. But the relevance to you is that if the prescribed cycling detours are deemed less desirable, cyclists will just stay on the mainline, contending for lane space with buses. And the relevance of the above to private motorists is that unattractive, physically-challenging cycling routes are less likely to precipitate a mode shift, i.e. more people still in cars.
Edit: another issue with the proposed cycling detours on route B (and other routes) is that they introduce T junctions where cyclists have to yield to motorised vehicles. This is something that non-cycling planners never seem to grasp. Ability to maintain momentum is a key criterion in whether a cyclist will see a cycling-specific detour as attractive. This issue is most commonly seen when planners build cycling detours around roundabouts, requiring cyclists to yield multiple times to vehicles entering and leaving the roundabout. Utterly useless.
This might seem like a cycling tangent in the wrong thread, but the appropriateness of an integrated infrastructure to one group of users has the potential to affect all users.
So asking logical questions is local nonsense then ? He’s not wrong because reality does need to come be a part of this proposal and and I don’t know cathedral road that well but it’s wider than old Youghal road from what I remember. Even with the best will in the world you can’t Make parts of it work.
It's barely been published and the usual local nonsense has started.
Hope I'm wrong but I don't think this will ever be delivered as intended. By the time the local nimbys and politicians have their way it'll be completely watered down to the point of being useless.
After the issues with the St Patrick St bus corridor and the Wilton Rd bus lanes I honestly cant see anything meaningful happening with any of this. The local businesses, local residents and particularly a majority of the Councillors just wont back it. Eamon Ryan is already putting it up to the council saying the money is there and its a use it or lose it situation. It will be a lose it in Corks case, i fear.
If we get anything, it will end up being some piecemeal stretches of bus and bike lanes where there is ample space and no one is impacted and the lanes probably aren't needed there anyway.
I feel it wont be just a Cork thing either, I can see the same happening in Dublin.
In saying that, from my end of town, I do really like the idea of a bus and bike only corridor on Main St Ballincollig. The area at the front of the shopping centre along with the old square and all that part of the main street would be a wonderful space as a result. Not a hope of it actually happening though....
The corridor that I live near is B and that will be a nightmare. And no it’s not because of NIMBY either. Unless the crowd doing this can find a way to make summerhill and particularly the hill past Dillon’s cross up towards mayfield library magically wider than I’ll tip my hat to them.
There’s supposed to be a dedicated bus lane there already(it’s marked out on the road) but it barely fits a two lanes of traffic as it is. And while you might be able to get some people to move by the library, where they expect people living between Dillon’s cross and the top of the hill where the three horse shoes pub is(was ?) to park if not near their homes then again I’ll tip my hat.
Yes. It looks like elements of it are present in corridors L, F, D and K but an overall orbital is missing. Originally it was described as:
CBC O Orbital corridor From Cork University Hospital via Western Road, Hollyhill, Blackpool, Mayfield, Jack Lynch Tunnel, Mahon point, Douglas village and Black Ash to Cork University Hospital
Was there not supposed to be an orbital corridor too?
Not all routes are equally difficult though. For instance a lot of Corridor A is doable with very little effort almost immediately. I've been harping on about it for years. Seems like low-hanging-fruit to me.
Corridor B and D are a nightmare, by comparison.
And then some corridors are a mix of "very doable" and "very difficult", like Corridor C, for instance.
No doubt. The Examiner are already framing it in a negative light going on about parking and gardens to get the nimbys worked up. It doesn't stand a chance unfortunately.
This is going to get killed before it even gets off the ground. NIMBYs, ignorant councilors, an incompetent council executive and a disinterested & hostile public will make sure of that.
Link to corridors info.
More info on the BusConnects corridors in Cork to be published today.
Park & ride wasn't included in any of the BusConnects consultations in Dublin. In fact, park & ride was recently removed from the Dublin BusConnects project and is now an independent project. It's the same design office that's delivering park & ride in the other cities so I would expect a similar approach.
Here's hoping they coordinate the timetables
The addition of the new town service the 34 is good news for the people of Cobh. It links up with the train station at Cobh which is another plus for people who live in the area & further east of Cobh.
It's funny the comments here are almost a carbon copy of the comments that were made on the first draft of the Dublin bus connects scheme, some areas left with a de facto reduction in service and generally underwhelming compared to the city strategy. With most people coming to concensus on the second draft and near universal support on third draft. I wonder is it deliberate, a way to get acceptance, albeit long drawn out.
Thw infrastructure proposals will make a bigger hit.
To be fair to snotboogie, they are quoting current off-peak frequencies and comparing them with the same frequencies in the new plan.
The full frequencies over the entire day are in the full report (https://busconnects.ie/media/2292/report-on-the-draft-new-network-print-quality.pdf) at page 47-49 and existing frequencies at pages 50-52.
Comparing morning peak frequency between 07:00 and 09:00:
206 - 8 buses
207 - 5 buses
216 - 4 buses
220 - 8 buses
220X - 4 buses
223 - 4 buses
The new proposal will have departures between 07:00 and 09:00:
3 - 12 buses
7 - 6 buses
8 - 7 buses
12 - 8 buses
41x - 3 buses
42x - 2 buses
Also the new 6 will operate from Grange Road via Kinsale Road (buses having previously been an outbound 8) - 7 buses
Also the 14 orbital would be 4 departures versus 2 currently on the 219.
Remember also that most single deck vehicles (if not all) in the Cork city fleet are going to be replaced by double decks, so frequency isn't the only capacity change happening.
The frequency quoted in the documents is at 12 midday on a weekday so you would assume it would be higher again at morning and evening rush hour.
Yeah it's a bit wild. A lot of the cross city buses are all being funnelled down Patrick St in this redesign. Panaban will need to be enforced full time otherwise it will be chaos down there.
I think you’re comparing peak-time now with off-peak under the new plan. The times quoted in the brochure and other materials are for daytime during weekdays - between the morning and evening peak periods
Ya but you also currently have the 207 every 30 mins, the 216 every 30 minutes, the 220 every 15 minutes and the 223 every hour. It's going from 9 buses an hour to 12 buses an hour on the Douglas Road and from 4 buses an hour to 3 buses an hour on the South Douglas Road. An overall upgrade in frequency of 2 buses per hour covering the entiretity of Douglas, Passage, Rochestown and Carrigaline.
It is remarkably unambitious for the population and lack of other options in the regions. Its really a minor adjustment rather than any sort of overhaul. Arguably the 220 going from every 30 minutes to every 15 minutes was bigger than this plan.
It seems crazy that not one bus will serve South Mall or Grand Parade, given the investment in making those streets amenable to public transport.
Also, not keen to see that the bus network hub has been moved out to City Hall - dumping pedestrians who want to go into the city centre right on the most pedestrian-hostile set of roads in Cork.
CMATS wasn't really a plan but just an indicative although take the point BusConnects appears to fall well short of it. Having looked again the Douglas Road will actually have a much higher frequency than 10 per min and has more than 1 route on it. It'll have the:
That should translate to a c.5 minute frequency. The South Douglas Road is definitely a bit lacking at 20 minute frequencies.
Regarding the two main spines out of Douglas to the city, the South Douglas Road and the Douglas Road, CMATs had 6 routes on the South Douglas Road and 4 on the Douglas Road, this plan has one route on each. CMATs would have resulted in a bus about every 2 minutes on each road. This plan will have one every 20 minutes on the South Douglas Road (down from every 15 minutes currently) and one every 10 minutes on the Douglas Road (up from every 15 minutes currently) leaving essentially the same frequency as is in place now. Its an extraordinary downgrade from what was planned.
The only orbital that comes close to what was in CMATS is the new 14 from Little Island to CUH via the tunnel and Douglas. On the corridor from Douglas to the city there is a 10 minute frequency for midday on a weekday and likely higher at rush hour. Frequency looks ok to me there.
Unless I'm reading this wrong it looks like a massive scale down from what was proposed in CMATs and initial drafts. No orbital routes at all and for Douglas, where I live there, seems to be significant reductions of frequency on the 206 and 220 with the only new route being a second bus taking a different route to Carrigaline :/ Hugely underwhelming from what I can see
Fares: 90 minute fare including rail and luas.
First official document I've seen referring to corks proposed light rail as 'luas' at least that's settled. Still no branding hints for the 'CART'
Direct link from Kent to UCC and MTU seems to be gone (currently the #5). The new 2A from MTU bypasses both the train station and the bus station. Strange one.
