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EuroPark profiting off hospitals?

TheTruth89

I just had to go visit a relative in the hospital and had to pay for parking...now what ever about paying it to the hospital... But euro park own the car parks and are literally making a profit off peoples misfortune and into the bargain just making people's lives more difficult in a difficult time.

Why is this even allowed ? It's an absolute disgrace.

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940334#Comment_118940334

A change that will benefit everyone WHO OWNS A CAR. You've missed the target again.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940298#Comment_118940298

Oh, I guess sweeping generalisations about everyone having and using a car are OK, but other generalisations are not allowed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940436#Comment_118940436

They have facilities teams for sure, for managing the facilities in the hospital. They don't have facilities teams for managing car parks. And again, interesting to note that will ALL the issues going on in the health service, your priority for staffing and spending is car parking.

Nothing actually medical - just car parking.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941308#Comment_118941308

The thread is about car parking. It's in the consumer forum. It's at the top of the page.

It's not about medical issues.

You're actually complaining about people staying on topic.

Also hospital parking doesn't benefit "everyone" who owns a car. Just those who have a valid reason for using a hospital car park and especially those who use them frequently.

So facilities people exist now. Nurse Mary in the car park will be delighted they've been located.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941639#Comment_118941639

”Stop talking about medical issues “ says man banging on about immune weakened patients.

Do many people who don’t own cars use hospital car parking?

Flinty997

Actually I didn't stay stop. I just pointed out you're complaining about people posting on topic. But the thread isn't about car ownership either. Impressive consistency on accuracy and relevance.

I would say quite a lot of people going to the hospital are passengers in cars that use the car park.

Maybe you could do a poll of patients at maternity and pediatric hospitals and to find out how many patients are car owners. Brighten everyones day. You could include a wealth survey at the same time.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941308#Comment_118941308

OR THE RELATIVES THAT USE A CAR TO COME VISIT THEM OR SHOULD THEY EVER DECIDE TO DRIVE THEMSELVES THEY WOULD BE ENTITLED TO USE IT ASWELL.

its not rocket science, your argument of lets not have free parking for patients at hospitals because its not fair to the patients that dont drive is absolute nonsense.

Whats next i suppose we cant invest in equipment to improve cancer treatment because its unfair to those that have COPD? should we scrap the children's hospital because its not fair to adults? can you see how stupid your points looks ?

You talk about missing the target... you arent even aiming in the same logical direction with your nonsense.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942115#Comment_118942115

So if the person using the hospital is a passenger, who benefits from the parking facility? Could it possibly be the car owner?

Not sure why you'd want me to go doing polls there. I'm not the one looking to change the current situation. Feel free to come up with a compelling case for change, because all we've seen here so far is driver entitlement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942122#Comment_118942122

So if the person using the hospital is a passenger, or a relative visiting, who benefits from the parking facility? Could it possibly be the car owner?

Unfortunately for you, cancer, COPD, children/adult status aren't linked to financial wealth. Car ownership is. That's why hospital funds should not be spent to benefit better off people.

Feel free to come up with a compelling case for change, because all we've seen here so far is driver entitlement. Drivers pay for their fuel, for their insurance, for their motor tax, for their servicing - why do they expect the hospital to subsidise their storage space, instead of investing in medical services?

[Deleted User]

Flinty997

Seems quite clear that the car parks are indeed generating profits vastly in excess of their costs. It's a significant revenue for the hospitals.

So the only question then is it reasonable profit or profiteering. I'd argue where it's not limited to hospital use is primary purpose is to generate profit. So then you'd have to consider private and public hospitals as separate issues. Though indeed the car park is unlikely to be segrated on that basis.

I've just remembered I have used a private clinic with validated parking. Very common in hotels obviously.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942167#Comment_118942167

You are completely lost in this discussion i think you should go back and read the original post and orientate yourself.

ill try again its a small compassionate improvement one less thing hassling people in a moment of hardship, 3rd party companies should not be profiting off hospital car parks end of.

Now your attempts at arguing against this is to use the example of cancer patients and your reasoning for cancer patients having to pay a 3rd party company for parking is its unfair to cancer patients that don't drive.

Again, no one is asking that the hospital divert funding from medical services to pay for parking, infact the opposite i believe one of my points was remove the 3rd party company that is making a profit off the parking and make it government ran and use all the profits from parking to improve our healthcare rather than lining the pockets of companies like EUROPARK if we must pay.

Going by your driver entitlement jibe im just going to assume you have some deep rooted hatred for drivers and dont drive urself and are more than likely a cyclist. which to be honest makes a whole lot more sense.

magicbastarder

it's fairly simple if you just boil it down to a question of fairness.

take the thread title; yes, europark are going to be making a profit from their operations; they're a private company, but the question is are they operating the car park on behalf of the hospital, or have they been given the car park to run for their own ends? in short, how much are they earning, vs. how much are the hospital earning, from the arrangement?

also, and it has come up several times, the manner in which parking fees are levied. the pay and display model is awful, particularly unsuited to a hospital environment, and by its very nature you either overpay, which is free money for the car park owner/operator, or you underpay and run the risk of being clamped, which again, given the context, is far from ideal.

lastly, there's the question of fairness about being charged to park in a hospital; personally, i have no issue with this. ideally though there would be a system of reduced charges for people actually availing of services in the hospital as being sick in this country isn't always cheap.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942167#Comment_118942167

"...hospital funds should not be spent to benefit better off people..."

That's another off topic tangent about car owners and wealth disparity for some bizarre reason. It's hypocrisy considering you were holding up private hospitals as an example earlier. Perhaps people with expensive bicycles shouldn't be "facilitated" either.

It's yet again got nothing to do with having poorly managed facilities and car parking.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942322#Comment_118942322

In addition to that. If they want to make revenue from car parking to boost hospital funding. Fair enough. But don't make it punitive for patients of the hospital services. That's just unethical.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942190#Comment_118942190

What figures are you basing your 'vast profits' conclusion on? What costs did you include in the analysis? How many years did you depreciate land costs over?

I've never seen any financial analysis that would support or deny that question. Income costs have been published, but not expenditure.

It's no particular surprise that private hospitals, which by their very nature discriminate against less well off people, will look after better off customers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942438#Comment_118942438

The topic is public funds being used to provide or subsidise free parking at hospitals, so car ownership and wealth disparity are absolutely on topic, seeing as parking tends to be used by better off people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942459#Comment_118942459

The proposed model of free parking is punitive for patients of hospital services, as less well off patients end up paying for the parking used by better off patients. That is just unethical.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942232#Comment_118942232

You need to keep trying harder and harder, until the penny drops for you that everyone doesn't drive. So, your claim would actually be something like;

compassionate improvement one less thing hassling some better off people in a moment of hardship, with the costs shared by everybody, including less well off people, 3rd party companies should not be profiting off hospital car parks end of.

The question of outsourcing or not outsourcing is a different topic, and goes beyond parking. Many hospitals outsource many services that would previously have been done by internal staff; canteen, security, gift shop, cleaning, parking and more. Your analysis seems to miss the point that outsourced staff are going to be much lower cost than internal staff, because they don't have public service terms and conditions, including pensions. So if they were to insource rather than outsource, the costs would increase significantly.

I don't have any hatred for drivers. I DO drive myself. The only think I hate is the needs of drivers being prioritised above all others.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942617#Comment_118942617

You're arguing a service which is income generating for the hospital. Has no benefit to the users of the hospital.

Not only that but those users are disadvantaged by paying less but using the hospital the same.

They could remove the effect of income from car parking by charging non users of the car parks more. Maybe that would fix it for you.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942617#Comment_118942617

You need to take your own advice and try harder to understand because the notion that drivers are being prioritized over everyone else is fabricated in your own mind not one person on here has said anything against improving public transport for people that don't drive, in fact you are the only one trying to pit both sides against each other in order to favor your own argument.

Ill try simplify it for you, providing free parking for patients and visitor does not equal an attack on other people nor does it equal taking anything away from other patients and it most certainly isn't an attack on people that don't drive...to believe such drivel is borderline delusional and very much detached from reality.

What have you got against taking the parking off private companies that are factually 100% making good profits and having the government run it and using tax to benefit the public with free parking or if it must be charged for... all profits get put back into the hospital to improve our healthcare system to the benefit of us all including you and your own family should ye ever need it. Why should the likes of EUROPARK and the likes be allowed to make profits off the back of patients and visitors in hospitals?

Your arguments are very obviously skewed for what ever reason.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942927#Comment_118942927

I'm not sure that you've got the idea of fairness in your heart when you suggest charging non-users for a service. If you want to put things on a fair basis, if the parking is going to be free or low-cost, then there should be Leap Card credits for those who travel by public transport, and taxi vouchers for those who use taxis. That would bring some kind of fairness to the system.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942955#Comment_118942955

The only skew in my argument is against perpetuating continued privileges for better off motorists at the expense of the wider population.

You may not have said anything against improving public transport, but you were remarkably silent on the matter of public transport, almost as if public transport users just don't count. You never mentioned any creative solutions, like Leap Card credit for public transport users or similar.

It is funny though how you have to twist my words in order argue with them. No-one said anything about 'an attack on other people' or 'taking anything away from other patients' or 'an attack on people that don't drive'. They're your words, not mine. It is, as I said, and as is patently clear, a privilege for better off people, at the expense of the wider population.

I'm not going to get into the outsourcing issue again, seeing as you ignored the point about the higher cost of public service staff.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943733#Comment_118943733

You realise we are in 2022 and the use of cars is wide spread? not just the "better off" as you attempt to yet again skew the arguement one would swear we were in 1908 where its the elite that have cars, unfortunately for your attempts.... the lad just trying to get too and from his appointment in his 01 yaris would not be considered "well off".

You aren't getting into the outsourcing issue because your last attempt at it was to have nurses and doctors out managing the car parks was laughed off and rightly so.

Free parking for visitor's and patients in no way impacts public transport and those that use it two completely different things keep trying tho.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943696#Comment_118943696

id be all for patients that use public transport being aided in anyway possible aswell, we should be doing that. You are the only one on here trying to argue against patients being helped out.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943696#Comment_118943696

Your claim was carparks are subsidized and are a net benefit to the driver which is unfair. But they are not subsidized people parking pay for them so there is no benefit. They are income generating. In fact people who don't park get the benefit of the income to the hospital.

What you want now is free taxis and public transport. Fine. Give it everyone and no will need the car park. Of course it will cost a fortune and you'll lose the income from the car parks.

That would be fair.

It would be great that if I need to go to the ER in the middle of the night you can get a free taxi. Or a taxi from anywhere in the country to Dublin for specialist treatment. There's the true cost of centralization to Dublin.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943774#Comment_118943774

You realise that car ownership is particularly low in our cities, not quite as widespread as you might think.

https://irishcycle.com/2020/05/10/data-in-images-cars-in-dublin-city-centre/

And yes, car owners are generally better off than non-car owners. Your 01 Yaris friend might not be part of the elite, but he's better off than the student commuting on his squeaky 2nd hand mountain bike.

And there's your twisting again, all those things that I never actually said, about motorists being 'elite' and having doctors and nurses in car parks.

Free parking for visitors and patients takes budget and resources that could otherwise be used for transport for less well off people. You know that hospital budgets are limited? Spending in one area means less spending in other areas.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943786#Comment_118943786

Aw gee, that's so generous of you. Just a shame that it took a week of discussion for you to recognise that not everyone drivers. How much of the budget that you want to direct towards free parking should be used for public transport instead?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118943938#Comment_118943938

I never said that they ARE subsidised. I said that the proposal for free or low cost parking would mean that they would be subsidised. I never said 'net benefit' at all, yet another example of words being put into my mouth so people can argue with them.

And hilarious to see the outraged sarcasm at the idea that non-motorists should have their travel subsidised, another clear manifestation of driver entitlement.

whisky_galore

Never mind, some people arent happy until patients are cycling to hospital on a 2nd hand push bike with a kidney hanging out of them.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946524#Comment_118946524

It took you a week and me spelling it out for you to realize the blatantly obvious which everyone had already known from the start.

Go back and ready the post about I made about the options to pay for the parking or better allocate the profits made from it by .

So far we ve established that you think the money will be coming from the hospital budget and parking management will be done by doctors and nurses 🤣🤣

Put the shovel down lad your points are getting silly now.

TheTruth89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946514#Comment_118946514

Europark make vast profits off hospital car parks why do we have to allocate budget towards it ?

And outside the cities ? You know the country isn't just Dublin where it would make more sense to not have a car. In the rest of the country not so much and a car is a must not a choice

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946533#Comment_118946533

Its not sarcasm to point out a thread about parking is not about people who don't use them.

Benefit, subsidized is all the same thing. But if they generate income from the hospital then it being paid for by those using it. There is no benefit or subsidy.

What you want is a parking subsidy for people who don't use parking. Which is bizarre. So say you want a transport subsidy. Then everyone should get it, including drivers. But that has YOU outraged no one else. No one else has a problem for transport being subsidized for frequent/long term patients of the hospital.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947006#Comment_118947006

He didn't just pick Dubin. He cherry picked city centre Dublin. The part of the entire country, the county, the city, most likely to have the least number of cars. Lol

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946997#Comment_118946997

You hadn't mentioned public transport on this thread until I brought it up, so you don't really have much credibility to pretend to be an advocate for PT users now.

If the money for car park facility improvements isn't going to come from the hospital budget, where do you think it is going to come from? Is the parking fairy going to fly down and wave her magic wand to upgrade the facilities to the fancy ones that folk here seem to want without anyone actually paying for them?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947006#Comment_118947006

Vast profits? Really? How vast is vast? What's your source for the internal financial analysis of a private company?

You can of course choose to outsource car park facility improvements to the FM company if you like, but that doesn't make money appear out of nowhere. It still has to be paid somewhere, either coming out additional fees paid to the FM company by the hospital, or paid by customers to the FM company (which would otherwise be part of the fee paid back to the hospital). Money doesn't come out of nowhere.

Dublin isn't the only city of course. There is indeed higher car ownership outside of Dublin, but it IS still literally a choice made - a choice to prioritise spending on a vehicle rather than anything else. But most people do live in cities and large towns, and most of them have other options for getting to hospitals.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946566#Comment_118946566

And there's the oul strawman arguments again, making up claims that no-one actually made so you can find something to complain about.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947529#Comment_118947529

The thread is about hospitals, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that you'd be twisting and wriggling to keep any mentions of non-car owners out of the discussion, so you don't have to face up to the realities of how they are discriminated against by the kinds of policies you're pushing for.

If the free or subsidised parking that you've been advocating for is provided, then it ABSOLUTELY is a benefit or subsidy.

What I want is that the transport needs of ALL patients are considered, not just the better off patients. Bizarre that you would think that to be bizarre.