If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
The Ukrainians didn't think he would invade blanch, you really need to get certain people out of that head.
We NEVER had an intention to 'invade', will you stop with the juvenile projection? Tiresome.
So you now think that protecting your own people is morally not the right thing to do?
What fact? That Mary-Lou was ignorant of the real world happenings? I think we all know that, yourself included, which is why you don't defend her pro-Putin stance anymore.
If its about the other paragraph, you are just blathering nonsense. There is nothing wrong with non UN mandated missions being available to future Irish governments and nothing in my post contradicts that. You must be misunderstanding again.
As for your last paragraph, you sound like Putin sending in his aid mission as the morally correct thing to do to go to the aid of Russian citizens in place where Russia laid claim to where they lived, and who were being persecuted in his opinion by the Nazification of Ukraine. He has more of an excuse than your 1969 "aid mission" aka invasion.
You better explain that to mark, who wants non UN mandated missions to be available to future Irish governments. He doesn't seem to be aware of the fact.
I was quite clear when I advocated for an aid mission that however it was seen and however illegal it was, it was still the morally correct thing to do to go to the aid of Irish people on an island where we constitutionally laid claim to where they lived.
It wasn't fairly obvious to Mary-Lou and the rest of Sinn Fein who were still defending Putin from NATO provocation when he was amassing that massive weaponry and troops.
However, that isn't relevant to the fact that you can amass all the troops you like or the handful of troops you like, but the "invasion" doesn't start until your soldiers cross that border, under whatever flag, disguise or form that you decide to send them in.
We are already involved in the conflict in Ukraine in a humanitarian and non lethal way. An Taoiseach has made it very clear that while we are militarily neutral we are not neutral in an overall sense.
IMHO our current military neutrality has to be ditched. We are part of Europe most specifically the EU and that is where our future lies. IMHO we have a duty to play a role in our own and collectively in the EU's security. To refuse to do so as we currently do because well its highly unlikely we will be invaded is very selfish. I can see a debate about whether ending our military neutrality involves joining NATO or not as well but for me ending military neutrality and gradually increasing our military spending from its current paltry 0.3% of gdp until we get to about 1.5% of gdp is something we need to do.
You guys seem to have the problem here.
If somebody amassed massive weaponry and troops armed to the hilt on a border then it is fairly obvious what he plans to do. And absolutely obvious once he starts bombing the **** out of the place and killing people.
Jeez louise, some gall on you lads! 😁
I accepted that neutrality was not enshrined in the constitution blanch, a long way back in the thread.
Putin also denies invading Ukraine, and Crimea a few years back.
I missed where you admitted you were wrong. Be nice to have an apology for the over-vigorous way you defended your wrongness.
However, fairly early on in this thread I explained the constitutional provisions in relation to neutrality. As you appear to read most of my posts I am surprised you missed it.
Neutrality, the Triple Lock etc., were never in the Constitution, however, the Crotty judgement and various follow-ups would mean that joining an EU Defence Force, and probably NATO, would require the permission of the people in a referendum. Taking part in an individual EU peacekeeping mission would not. Declaring war would not require a referendum.
A 'few' times?
Like others here, you just cannot help yourself when you make a faux pas of all your arguments previously. You misrepresent and lie.
I immediately accepted I was wrong. Would that others would do the same.
Run from the question asked. Again.
You can have UN mandates without the full backing of the UNSC... you do know that right? Come on, tell me you know that... you spent weeks arguing this and you don't know this?
Anyway, there are other ways to do peacekeeping. I can see some sort of EU peacekeeping force being deployed to Ukraine as an example.
I am still chuckling at your lack of knowledge on this issue Francie. For someone who is on here all day, you should really beef up on your fundementals.
You have NO IDEA what a future Irish government may want to do.
Correct, and you have a problem with this because you are not a democrat?
Nothing stopping a future Irish government from removing the Triple lock on Sunday (it's not in the constitution) so they can do what they want on Monday.
Your point I quoted above is not some gotcha, in fact, it backs mine up.
Then again, you did think Neutrality and the Triple Lock were in the constitution. Oh, we had to correct you a few times for that humdinger!
LOL
SO I will ask you again, using your logic re: removing the Triple Lock - what would us sending troops to a foreign country without a UN mandate be seen as Mark?
You can stamp your feet all you want.
Weasel words are coming from the guy who undermined his much vaunted earlier arguments - it was and is hilarious.
Putin never said anything about an 'invasion' either, funny that eh?
As I said, Putin-bots be like Putin-bots. A marriage made in heaven.
Ah, I see you have this on repeat. Always trying to change the topic, always trying to weasel out of your own words and actions.
Yes, I want the Irish Government to send its troops to Mongolia, Morocco and the Moon, that is exactly what I want Francie.
Wrong, I never said anything about an 'invasion'.
We are back to 'invasion' now from the guy who wants to make it possible for the Irish government to send troops wherever it wants, militarily or in a peacekeeping/humanitarian role. ROFL
Russia wouldn't be that interested in Ireland, Limerick, Clare and North Kerry would be enough to establish an Atlantic Sea base with airport close by.
Yes, people like yourself when they want to play with toy soldiers from their comfy home.
THe only person here who advocated Ireland invading a NATO member is you, by the way, no one else. Take ownership for once.
Is it time to join NATO yes it is or will you join after half of the country is going to be destroyed smart people are proactive stupid people are reactive. Why small countries like Estonia with 0.5 million population or Latvia or Lietua are not attacked by russia? Because they are NATO members.
Maybe you can save your pretentious and glib response and visit your local national school which will probably have a few Ukrainian kids there, whose fathers are in Ukraine fighting against a neo-imperial fascist force, and preach to them about it...... rather than bore us all with your nonsense.
Are you that brave, I doubt it.
It is why we don't want any part in it, we had it here.
Odd when you try and portray yourself as a peace-loving man, when in fact if it suits you are more than willing to send (other) men to die for causes deep to your own heart. Like invading the North in 1970, and again in 1923. Never mind your staunch defence of the murderous actions of the PIRA, including the defence of their own war crimes in killing civilians and children which you have never condemned with a 'whatabout' statement pegged on.
See, if you were consistent maybe we would have more respect for your viewpoint. However, we all know that you are a bloodthirsty warmonger when it suits and a dove when it suits. So in essence you have no credibility here, nor have any right to go on your high horse and preach morality to the rest of us, about the horrors of war when you made fun of innocent men, women and children killed by war in the past.
God only knows why you continue to repeat the same tired arguments in this thread when all you have done is bury your head in the sand and dismiss any notion that things have changed in Europe, and the next few decades are not going to be like the next few.
No mark, no need to bring god into it, the people 'will' it. That is all.
Has there always been these tensions mark? Yeh or nay? Who benefits from them being maintained?
Generic arguments at this stage. Sure the world will keep on turning.... and Ireland will remain Neutral, because God wills it, or something.
Sure, maybe in your world nothing changes, because you choose to not read or open your mind to any new ideas.
That sounds like something a Putin-bot would say in fairness. Sure, its all a ploy of the West to sell more arms, blah blah blah...
I guess 1939-1945 was hyperbole as well? ROFL
I think the opposite.... stalemate in Ukraine... no direct route to Serbia created, Russia declares victory for something...
Baltic and northern fleet ships start exiting the Black sea heading home....
split in bay of Biscay, northern fleet transit west coast, Baltic fleet point towards English channel...
Detour to Irish south coast... **** all anyone can do.
Why would they bother? to piss NATO off and show they can take somewhere for propaganda reasons.
But they are both right next door to Russia. Ireland isn't.
The only point that Russia wastes their time with Ireland is after they have already opened an attack on NATO in the east, by which point Ireland being in NATO or not is totally irrelevant as it's already a world war by that point.
