If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
No, it's not like that. We are by defacto under a bit of the NATO security umbrella by the fact that we share a land border with the UK.
We have an agreement with the RAF that lets them scramble their jets and intercept any rouge plane in our airspace. In some ways, we are kind of in NATO already. ;-)
See where 57% say No and only 27% say Yes mark?
That is to allow Britain to protect itself Mark, and you know this.
More scaremongering about some nebulous threat in the future. Energy infrastructure could have been attacked at any time, in far darker days of East-West tension.
Yep, totally agree. Ireland currently has the best, and cheapest, form of NATO protection.
Just amazed that people think Ireland would be a sensible, or practical target for Russia to invade with their military. Maybe a target with cyber warfare, but not physical hardware.
48 to 39 in favour when people reflect on the idea that we need NATO for security reasons.
Your poll is like the one where people want a united Ireland someday in the future. When hard practical reasons get considered like increased taxes the numbers change dramatically. In an ideal world, most people in Ireland don't want to be in NATO, which is what your poll shows. However, once the practical aspects of security are considered, the numbers change.
Ah so the one poll?
Again, the trend is upwards in regards EU defence and Neutrality, separate questions really and what will actually happen here.
Any data on how the Irish are thinking on that, if there's a 'trend' you should be able to evidence it?
The poll was taken after Neale and Leo made their pitches and there was a lot of talk on neutrality and NATO. The trend is as it has been since Dev i.e. we want to be neutral and we don't want to join NATO
I don't think people are jumping up and down saying that there will be T-90s ploughing up the N7 tomorrow. However, security is a lot more than that.
Just look the war crimes being carried out in Ukraine, the likes of Finland and Sweden are right to be worried, and are keen to join NATO. However, well all know security is more complex than that. We have some of the largest waters in Europe to defend yet our Navy is pretty much non-existant.
Again, my earlier examples about Ireland being an off-shore renewable energy superpower, and all those underwater communications and electric cables connecting everything? Cyber security? The Russian embassy is being used as a spy hub for the rest of Europe, we all know it because we are a soft touch.
No. It's because of an unwillingness and inability to monitor and police Ireland's airspace.
Ah right, I guess you were one of those back in January giving out about Western scaremongering about Russian troops invading Ukraine. Putin-bots be like Putin-bots...
Not trying to embarrass you but:
And you, as an ardent Irish Republican is OK with this? Along with the British Veto on our defence policy?
A Twitter response, not giving that any seriousness, but the particular issue was addressed in my post. Rather than detract from the poll, it adds to the weight of the poll.
Ireland and the UK have an agreement to allow British combat aircraft to overfly the Republic. The UK isn’t protecting Irish airspace, the agreement is to benefit the UK.
Why do British jets 'protect' Irish airspace? (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)
Our defence forces are inadequate, why? Because despite many calls from the DF the government has hollowed them out and left them in the state they are in.
Thats really funny. I thought all the Republicans in the 70's and 80's wanted "The Brits out".
But now, no they did not want them out because that would have had to accept some responsibility for the situation. Much much better to posture "provoke a diplomatic incident to get the Brits to act" - that is both hilarious and idiotic.
This is the same position now with pan-European security, why act with some responsibility when you can posture.
What?
People thought they were going to be over run and burned in their homes Bob. Any chance you could let that reality affect your view. Somebody needed to protect them.
Sure why would you bother with empathy when you can get a cheap dig in.
The logic is unchanged. It benefits the UK and, in the process, Ireland.
As one poster put it, "If a neighbour hops over the fence and mows your lawn for nothing, let them crack on."
Britain only does it because of our proximity.
I don't think Ireland would be a logical target.... but an opportunistic one most definitely....
with the stuff coming out of Russia, who knows what direction this will take...
a lot of the naval assets in the Black sea transited the English channel and western Irish coast to get there on the months leading up to the war, so at some point they will transit back...
the PDF won't be sitting in wait tooled up to the teeth with anti armour weapons, and hundreds of SOF trained by UK & US SOF..
As mentioned above, there are "agreements" in place between the UK (and I suspect the the US also) for protection, but the details are still unclear as to what level, and are still held under state secret status....
Why Ireland?
Why not? If the war in Ukraine is going to ****, Transniteria doesn't fall, with Hungary siding with Russia and a land bridge to Serbia both not coming to fruition...
Why not have a quick stop off in a nice quiet neutral country, with little resistance, which would give Russia a place on the Western flank of NATO, contest the Irish sea, make sub movements in and out of Faslane more difficult, boarder with the UK, and free access to the Atlantic....
a lot will look at the above and thing what a load of made up bullshit.... but all I'm saying, is at least strategize about it... a lot didn't think Ukraine would happen, I think it would be wrong just to compare Ireland and Ukraine and think "ppfft, he hasn't a chance" and write it off..
Ireland would be a strategic target because of our location to the US and UK but realistically unless we get some sort of world war, Ireland will be able to maintain the status quo. What shocks me is that people can't foresee anything more than the status quo. It was 35 years ago that Ukraine and Russia were one and the same. Weak countries accept the faith they are given. I don't think joining NATO is the answer but Ukraine should be a wake-up call to weaker countries that you need to prepare for the worst.
Modern political conversation is largely driven by a pacifist, elite class that are too obnoxious to realise that not everyone thinks like them.
I served in the military and we are in no way equipped to defend ourselves. There is no leadership, direction or motivation in our army. We should be proud of being a neutral country, but one that should be prepared to defend itself, as is reasonably possible.
He's refusing to concede that the needle has definitively moved on neutrality, and that it is to the front of mind of much of the population now. This is because Irish neutrality has always been a historical fudge. And, if push came to shove, and there was a widespread European war, the state wants NATO membership in its back pocket just in case. And yes, the state should definitively have that option if that's what's required for our defence - not to be hamstrung by airheaded doctrinaire nonsense placed in our constitution at the behest of head-the-balls like Paul Murphy.
We'd all love the world to be pixies and rainbows and peace in the shire - but we need to have security options. The world is changing, and there's no point in sticking our head in the sand. The day that NATO membership makes more sense than it doesn't for the state and it's interests, we should be at the front of the queue with the pen ready.
More of the hyperbole - 'the world is changing'.
There has always been East-West tensions and West-Asia tensions West-Middle East tensions and plenty of wars. What would the arms industry do without them.
Unfortunately Francie, you're doing a fine ostrich impression if you don't think this war has changed Europe for the next generation or so.
You've got Finland and Sweden (of all countries) ripping up the script on their neutrality and you want to talk about hyperbole.
Give over.
Europe will adjust Yurt, but the world won't change, the geo political games will continue as before. Tyrants will come and go.
That sounds like something from a Willie Nelson song, not a security policy.
Ireland would be usefull to the US, or Canada or Brazil, if they were looking for an easy stopping off point for assembling their forces for invasion of the UK and the rest of Europe.
That Russia is boxed in by Europe and NATO countries in their route to Ireland it makes it a totally ridiculous target. The effort involved in getting their forces around NATO and Europe just so they can come at Europe from the opposite direction is a complete waste of time for Russia. If they had the power to do something like that via Ireland, then why wouldn't they just attack Europe from the east and by land which is far simpler?
Would be like South Africa attempting to attack Malta whilst every other country in Africa was aligned against South Africa and friendly with a neutral Malta. Completely stupid attack and waste of military forces.
And this is not a 'game' Francie. There are cities being reduced to ash as we speak, women subject to wartime sexual violence, civilians being butchered in the street having gone out for bread. There are traumatised children turning up at your local national school. Widows of men fighting for the survival of their country being sheltered in your local hotel.
Wake up. There's no 'game' or hyperbole.
Nor were any of the hundreds of wars over the last few decades alone Yurt. Are you only realising war is horrible?
It is why we don't want any part in it, we had it here. Geo political game playing leads to a lot of war...if you refuse to recognise that, it is you that has his head in the sand. If the people you mention were the real concern and not the geo political games, Ukraine would be in NATO years ago.
