If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
I think that poll might have a few issues. ROFL
Nonetheless, the poll also illustrated confusion over what joining NATO or an EU-organized force might really mean. When asked whether “Ireland should drop its policy of neutrality,” 57 percent said no.
48-39 majority want to join NATO in this opinion poll. Wrong side of history again, are you?
How is it best way to go?
Would swiss type neutrality not be better,having every adult in country trained in arms and explosives etc etc and obligated to take part,would do much more to defend the country,than getting involved in what a child could preceive the eu defence will end up doing??
Heard it all before mark. You campaign away but when our 'leaders' seem to have failed so miserably to convince I'd wager it's a long way away. Meanwhile the current government can hardly dare to continue to cut the DF's could they, after all the bullshit and lip service to our defence. Could they?
It is time to join NATO. Neutrality served us very well, particularly as for decades post independence we were at more risk from the UK than any other power.
But the world is divided in a different way now and there are risks. As it stands we haven’t a hope of defending the country, we need to be in an alliance of countries whose values we broadly share. We can’t expect people we refuse to help to help us if we are ever attacked.
Well we all know you wont ever change your mind regardless of the facts or events.
Mark my word, Ireland's neutrality is on its last legs and a new EU defence alliance will be the way to go.
Best of luck changing people's minds here. The Richmond/Varadkar push seems to have failed.
That's Finland's decision to make Mark.
Yes, but it goes show big changes can come quick. We need to have a serious rethink about our defence and alliances with other nations. The usual cranks and moaners can GTF.
On homelessness, Finland has a property tax, something our boys don't support.... maybe your boys in West Belfast should change their tune on that little policy of theirs.
Jaysus, go back, find the thread I made the point in and read it.
I never advocated for the Irish DF's to defend the peace across the province, I said they should have gone into the Bogside to protect the people there, provoke a diplomatic incident and pressure/force the British to act.
The British did eventually act. but because we stood back, they thought they could solve the issue by subjugating nationalists and shoring up the sectarian bigoted state.
The point is that the British Army's mission (13K strong) in NI during the troubles was to stop a low level sectarian conflict becoming a full on civil war (eg Yugoslavia). You may believe that the DF could have done better but considering the entire DF size at this time was 8800, I doubt it.
The paper says that Ireland's defence force strength at the time was only 8,860 personnel, a number which included the air corps, navy, troops on UN duty, and back-up units. Excluding these elements there would not be more than 2,500 line troops available to be mustered, organised into units and trained preparatory to undertaking incursions," the document warns. In addition, the paper says their combat effectiveness would have been low and there were deficiencies "in almost every type of armament, ammunition and military equipment"
Also here is a report where Lynch considered an incursion of DF troops in the North which concluded
The armed opposition likely to be encountered by incursions into Northern Ireland is vastly superior in strength, organisation, combat training and equipment to those elements of the Defence Forces which could be mustered," army officers warned.
The most recent poll here suggests you guys have an uphill battle to persuade the Irish electorate that it the right decision for us.
Best of luck convincing them if your strategy is to accuse them of being pro Putin or anti Western.
Maybe, given the numbers here against joining, it might fit MM better to be in Finland seeing how they solved their homelessness problem? Priorities and all that!
Back on topic, MM was in Finland today. Most believe they will join NATO by the end of the summer. A total seachange there.
I guess Francie and the others will decry nasty NATO for expanding, making Finland join and decry its expansion, like the good Putin bots they are!
Thatcher thought about it too and wasn't Dev offered unity as well?
Not sure what your point is after that.
This is not just about the DF who would have lost thousands of troops, it is about the Irish civilians who would have died as a result of the terrorism unleashed in the south.
Yes I am sure that both Lynch and Wilson knew exactly what would happen and the solution adopted was the least worst option. Sometimes there are no happy outcomes.
Wilson even investigated pulling ALL British troops out of NI. The conclusion -
The study concluded: "There are no direct reasons why the withdrawal of all service facilities would not be feasible."
They calculated that it would take three months to transfer all personnel and dependants, stores, fuel, ammunition, vehicles and equipment.
But, the study warned, funds would have to be provided to replicate some of the facilities in Britain and the pull-out would have to be cleared with Nato.
It added that such an operation would be both cumbersome and embarrassing and would inevitably aggravate the combustible situation in Northern Ireland.
The Top Secret report warned that, if the violence increased after a complete military withdrawal and civil order had collapsed, Britain would face heavy international criticism. In that eventuality, Britain would have to send the soldiers back in again.
What?
More lies.
I said they should have gone in BEFORE the British were embarrassed into sending troops in August. That deployment eased the crisis and the BA was broadly welcomed given the relief that brought. That didn't last long and they were soon carrying out acts for which answers and justice is STILL being sought, to this day.
Are you sure you are fully up to speed with the era?
The moral imperative of our government and DF's is/or should be, to protect it's citizens. Like those that go on foreign peacekeeping missions they of course know there may be a price to pay for that. It quite rightly doesn't deter those missions nor should it have done here in our own country.
They didn't protect and a vacuum formed where a community of Irish people had nobody to defend them, the IRA filled that vacuum. What's even worse is that Lynch and Wilson knew what would happen.
Some day there will be a big reveal when we discover that Francie and blanch are the same person, it would be a great long play.
Eh no, he wanted to send in the Irish troops AFTER the British troops were there, effectively invading a NATO power at the height of the Cold War. Naive is one description.
Although off topic, I am interested in this hypothetical here.
Are you basically saying that if the Brits did not send in peacekeeping troops (which they really really did not want to do). If instead the Irish defence forces went in as peacekeepers then all the troubles would not have happened as the IRA would have been marginalised.
If so, I think that is an interesting view, naive but interesting.
Personally in this scenario I think the DF (and Ireland) would have been targeted by loyalist paramilitaries in exactly the same way that the Brits were targeted by republican paramilitaries in real life. So you would have had the troubles in exactly the same way but instead mostly on Irish soil - Dublin rather than London, Cork rather than Birmingham, etc, etc.
Nothing I am seeing now changes my mind in the slightest and it seems the majority of Irish people agree.
It's you guys that are the outliers here, not me.
He has a point.
If the UN want to send in peacekeepers to Ukraine, we cannot participate because Russia as being members of the UNSC would veto it, thus we cannot contribute.
You are OK with that situation. In fact you defend it to the hilt.
How freaking desperate that post is. 😁😁
Is this what you are reduced to?
Nonsense. You are a Putin apologist, wanting to give him a veto over the potential use of the Irish army in an EU peacekeeping mission in the Ukraine should one happen.
I don't think he is defending Russia actually.
What he seems to be saying is the the West would be as afraid of Russia as they would have been of an untrained Irish army peacekeeping mission wandering in unarmed into Northern Ireland in 1969 and therefore wouldn't have squashed us.
Funny really.
So even now when the fact that Russia is a Nuclear power is known, you still peddle the fantasy?
Why are you so hellbent on defending your boy Putin and his actions in Ukraine? Not surprising tbh, you have always defended the murders of children by the PIRA, so I guess when Putin's troops are murdering away in Ukraine, you give the same old tired answer.
"I don't like NATO because of their previous actions."
Do you like them now?
Perhaps it would be preferable to join the EU Army, [whenever there is one].
On the understanding of course that the previous actions of some of the potential members of this proposed army might render them objectionable.
Probable best to stick to peacekeeping. It's cheaper and won't upset people's moral compass.
oh please Marine, are you not better than this?
Not backed up by anything Harold Wilson/Jim Callaghan said or did blanch.
Keep trying but you are failing like those now painting me as 'anti Western' and 'pro Russia'.
99%????
God you do love your misrepresentations.
I spend most of my time here commenting on the Irish government mark actually.
The complete lack of understanding of the geopolitics of the 60s and 70s is mind-boggling from Francie. No understanding of the paranoia of the major powers. The UK would never have let a potential Cuba off its shore.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c6e76a2e0d85c3808d93c2f75a0c528d.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
