I was wondering what SF have done that this thread is so busy then realised there is a bit of a scandal about Watt and Holohan. 😀
Just to reiterate
It wasn't references to Germany or France that SF deleted en masse
It was references to Russia
Who do they think they are kidding ?
You apparently
Compromise deosnt work,liberials use it to destroy progress and damage poorest
Hence how greens stood on a platform of legalising weed,restore child protection for single mothers upto 18,reducing classsizes,introduction of wealth taxes and have been reduced to telling people have cold showers and drive slower....this governemnt would not exist without the greens,this is what compromise achieves in ireland,and why we go decades without any meaningful reform,
Sf have no need to go central to continously lead,dont really need to even be largest party tbh,they need to rout the centre and force people left/right like a proper country,centrism as a concept is defunt.....they have fg drove demented and further to the right than anyone could have hoped for.....just need to empower PD type folk to restablish,to shatter that vote and drive both further and further down rabbithole of nonsense that right leads people to
The green party is back boned by a lot more than wishy washy middle class folk,you really need to stop relying on outdated cliches
I am not a member of sf,soviet union hasnt existed for 30 years
You have to learn to deal with reality as it is,not what yous wish it to be
Data from 2020 says that Russia is self sufficient in food (exporting about half its grain) in everything except fruit and berries.
They certainly won't be short of energy!
They import a lot of their fruit from China, so they should be ok there. https://www.producereport.com/article/russia-resumes-apple-pear-imports-china
Compromise does work if played correctly at the opportune moment in politics. It worked for Fine Fail and Fine Gael. SF are normally skilled in knowing when to loosen their ideology when it becomes politically opportune. We have seen it in entering the Dail. The u turn on the EU and the SCC. Now I am not a green voter myself.
But I can see that environment is as buzz word for the youth. SF know this so they have to at least first have a Green ‘environment’ pretence while delaying the enviable.
It amuses me because SF and the Green politicians are by and large polar opposite’s in background and Outlook.
The Greens are middle class urban wishy washy, peace first idealists. SF still like to at least pretend they are the party of the working man. And there is still the deep down conditioning in SF of willing to die for the ‘cause’.
Going slightly ‘environmentally Green would at least help normalise the SF party moving it away from their old ‘6 county’ flag waving etc. it will happen eventually. SF will go more central in order to lead consistently. I find it fascinating at which junctures they decide to discard their harder Republican edges to achieve this normalisation making themselves palatable to the broader electorate in the ROI.
In my view the real sign of this will be when SF councillors do not vote on bloc on Dublin City Council time and again. When the party is more open to dissenting views. As far as I see it SF are the only party who consistently vote on bloc in unison in DCC. That does not happen by accident.
As I said SF going slightly Green for the environment will be a start in taking the hard edges off the party.
They're using the Gazprom money to make the Ukrainian people homeless and dead with hyperbaric bombs
Go read up on the Soviet Union,your parties friendship with it and on Putin
For the latter I'd suggest Fiona Hill,the world's foremost expert on the man
SF were right to see the writing on the wall regarding Russia the other week by deleting half their Web resources but it was a conversion so late,it might well be crocodile tears
The love for Russia on display from Sinn Fein's supporters will come back and bite them in the next election. People won't forget, even if they have been cleverer than Daly and Wallace.
You are against water charges, LPT and carbon taxes, all taxes that are paid disproportionately by the wealthy. If you are homeless or renting, conserving water in a small apartment and travelling by public transport to work, you pay very very little of those taxes, but you and the Shinners want to increase the income taxes on those people. That is the hypocrisy of the Irish left, that they can't actually defend the working poor.
As for the Russians, they won't get poor, you are swallowing Clare Daly-like propaganda. Russia has had a huge trade surplus meaning it is well able to feed its population.
Being terrorised by russian army??
this is no my eyes not a justification for no-fly zone prefering to instead strave ordinary russians with a course of action that hasnt been proven to work....i think practical action trumps theory in time of crisis
Utter demented rubbish,the soviet union hasnt existed in 30 years👏👏👏,its as relevent to todays discourse as albert reyonlds
Yous are right they could (and should) use these resources on their own people,but can you gaurantee they will with these sanctions??
Looks to me a case of wishful.thinking however
Except i didnt ask this,seems yous cant gaurantee ordinary russians wont go hungry,but are happy to press on irregardless
16% of population here hold 84% of the wealth,what % tax do you think this 16% hold??
Or is your commitment to wealth taxes as shallow as every other "cause" you propogate
The Soviet Union is alive and well in Putin who is attempting to put it back
The sanctions are not designed to stop the war immediately
Just to make it unsustainable
That was made clear from the start by the EU,USA and others
No country ever,even south Africa has ever had sanctions the like of which have rightly been put on putins regime
(you can use your credit card in Havana but not Moscow)
It'll take another 2 years or so to have Germany weaned off Russian gas
Then they're fûcked
Russia btw is taking in 100s of millions a day via state owned Gazprom
So don't give me rubbish about poor people in Russia
Their government could put those resources into their poor
Putin is a Soviet
So are the older core Sinn féin former IRA people
As I said,populism has taken over SF nowadays so the people who used laud Russia are being told they'll have to bite their lips
And what is happening to the ordinary Ukrainian?
I can guarantee that without sanctions, many many Ukrainians will be killed by Russian soldiers.
As for wealth taxes, I fully support wealth taxes such as water charges for millionaires with swimming pools and I am a huge supporter of the LPT, the only wealth tax in Ireland as it isn't paid by the homeless or renters. I am in favour of paying people what they deserve for the work they do.
It deosnt work,and if they poll as well as indicated,it leaves them with no need to compromise,nothing to stop all other parties compromising and adopting the sf position
What do you think compromises achieve?,how has greens throwing their platform achieved for em??
Soviet union has not existed in over 30 years mate,labeling/linking russia as soviet union is v.out of touch with reality
The sanctions arent working (never do,from i can see),this war will drag on for between 2 and 4 years,ukraines begging with weeks for air support/no fly zone and eu plus nato have sat on their hands,prefering sanctions,which will disportionatially affect poorest
Yous can gaurantee,no ordinary russian will go hungry as regards these sanctions?....because they certainly did in 2015 anyway
I know by your posts about the poor yous dispise em,but dont dress it up in pretending to want to damage the weathly when yous oppose wealth taxes and support paying over 100K to all and sundry in public service
So no sanctions then and leave Putin at it ?
Laughable chamberlainisn that
The only reason pbp oppose sanctions is because they are trots and where do you think trotsky was from ?
At least one semblance of normality with Sinn Féin is their populism core now means they have had to abandon their Soviet loving past,at least in public
Pbp on the other hand are in the invidious position of not supporting sanctions designed to wake up the Russians to Putin making 10s of millions homeless and torturing and murdering 1000's
You'd be locked up in Cuba for criticising the government btw (ditto Russia)
Lovely system (sarcasm in case you don't notice,not the locking up the opposition, that happens,I'm being sarcastic about it being lovely)
Yeah, that poor old ordinary Roman Abramovich has been reduced to asking friends for a loan of the odd million or so.
The sanctions are targetting the rich as my sarcastic example shows.
Compromise is how governments work. Particularly in Ireland’s system. If are elective representatives had your attitude cross party committees would never happen. For one who seems to take an interest in politics it seems to be a bit of an anathema that you have such a disdain for compromise. Unless you are just ‘playing to the gallery’ for effect?
Would broadly agree with pbp as regards sanctions harming ordinary russians the most,and will only serve to further harden support for putin in medium term
Have sanctions worked anywhere to further regime change,cuba been under a form of sanctions with 2 generations
weird bang of forced compliance off the whole thing,similar to what we laugh at the british over and their poppy season
They didn't get the memo after the party site got "spring cleaned"
A quick look at Twitter shows that some of the more "hardcore" SF accounts seemed to agree with the PBP stance this morning. Is there a disconnect between the party line and what some of the more traditional support based are thinking?
Little secret,im.not a member of sf,for reasons outlined previously
There is no reason to compromise,its stupid compromises for liberials,what has the country in state it is (see green party and what its platform has been reduced to)....
likelyhood the next government wont be formed without sf (expected circa 65 seats)so ergo no need to compromise.
any change/cuts/tax should come from top down,
And there in lies the difference needed,no point in asking people,who need to choose between heating & eating to pay extra....while we have no wealth taxes and an aviation industry paying zero...deosnt seem fair to me,much better to leave country in flux,or with "unstable coalitions" (always makes lol) than compromise on this imo
Must check the ff 1930 manifesto on NI protocol,mental healthcare etc,such lazy irish times style anyslis and nonsemse thrown out,its hilarious to think theres actual adults whom swallow it unquestioned
You didn't answer the question and just went on another rant to yourself. Which seems to be your style. You never seem to say what SF can do or could do to change. Compromise. That is how parties get elected in the Dail and lead. Only rant about and blame everyone except SF.
It is clear to me that the environment is going to be a key issue for all parties. Because it is what many of the youth are keyed into. So in order to become more mainstream SF will have to come up with a plan. Or at least slightly change. They have done so on other issues I already listed to make the party more mainstream and electable. A slow normalisation of the party I would call it.
If SF plan to go into Senior Hurling. Lead in the Dail they require more change to be palatable to potential coalition partners. At the moment SF are following the FF 1930's manifesto promising the sun the moon and the stars. A slightly constitutional party 2.0.
Sf dont share my idology on many subjects?.
Any green proposal,that focuses on population efforts and zero curbs on industry is doomed to failure ,telling lads that few sucklers in west that do be keeping their house warm with turf is worse and more deserving of tackling than likes of lufthansa amd their 11,000 empthy flights throughout the pandemic....is the political equilivalent of shouting at crows,while pigs have broken in and are eating the potatoes
Utter liberial,green-washing,naive nonsense...which deosnt tackle the fundamental issue is kinda a microsm of all things wrong with liberialism and its determination to drive wealth inequality .....any change/cuts/tax should come from top down,difficult to justify people going cold in their homes,while industry and wealth taxes arent allowed imo
So given that SF share your ideology and viewpoint how would you as SF solve the Green issue? It all well and good blaming others. But you know and I know in other to get the youth vote SF will have to eventually grasp the nettle and come up with some valid proposal. Even though it would mean SF being less dogmatic ideologically.
SF changed on going into the Dail, changed on the EU. Changed on Russia. Changed on the SCC. In order for SF to become a more middle ground party. And get the votes to lead in government. They will have to change tact on the environment IMO. So I ask again how can SF achieve that change? In your opinion.
Except i havnt an anti-green agenda.....its failed here due to poor leadership and a deliberate policy of targeting poorest,while actively working to leave them behind
A movement that leaves entire sections of a community behind,is by definition exelplified of poor leadership and destained to failure....
why not face down corporate interests and raise corp tax on airlines to 48%+??.....nah liberials will simply let pensioners and single mothers choose between eating or heating their home and label it progress,while using their carbon tax to retrofit homes of the rich
Congrats guys,quality movement👏👏👏👏
Keep attaching Sinn Fein to the anti-green agenda. Write off the young vote. More of it, please.
Can see carbon taxes and the future of the next generations being a big topic at the next election. SF don't look good on those issues now.
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