There was this one time on boards during the last presidential election when someone put up a poll asking who people were going to vote for. The winner of the poll was Peter Casey. However, Peter Casey did not win the election. He did come second, but Miggeldy was returned in a landslide. Point being that Internet communities are not always an accurate microcosm. Now I've seen a fair amount of bashing of Daly even before Russia invaded Ukraine, but the fact remains that some fair amount of people in the wider world must have liked what she was offering at the time.
But trying to keep this related to the topic at hand, I do think that if the likes of Daly and Wallace contest the next EUP elections, they will get absolutely hammered over their rigid adherence to criticising the EU at a time when solidarity is the most needed thing. If they're willing to stump up for Russia and challenge the 'western narrative' just because RT once gave them a 15 minute interview or something, their principles can't be all that solid.
Someone important flying into Moscow now?
Where in god's name is it TLP? 😮🙂
The issue is serious but its an online forum with a virtual identity, don't get too upset lads.
The other reason to accept surrenders is that you want the next set of soldiers to surrender too.
Oh god forbid anyone would engage in debate...
I hear you Ron, but if I may the mistake you're making is trying to be dispassionate in passionate times. Such times quite naturally make some people very reactive and if you're not 100% with us, you're 100% against us. While missing the irony that the same dynamic is likely happening on Russian Telegram if anyone dares to suggest that maybe the Ukrainians aren't all "nazi Khokhols". If it's happening at all on Russian Telegram. You can bring up nuance, they can't. Which again those who shout you down in a free society can miss. Scarily so.
This would pretty much be my general take in this GM.
The "Rules of War", particularly when it comes to an invading force in your homeland is at best a tightrope, and a damned thin one.
An enemy tank and infantry support show up in your town and your guy's crosshairs. You loose an anti tank missile at the tank, it hits and if it's a Russian tank it goes up like a zippo and their turrets pop off like a fúcking jack in the box and the men inside are fried alive. If they're lucky. If not they cook as they claw screaming at the hatches to get out. Either way what's left could be buried in a shoebox. You open fire on their support and mow them down and as it's not Hollywood, few enough will be "instant kills", there'll be many barely out of their teens screaming for their mothers as they bleed out on a foreign field for the ambitions of a rich old prick.
And whoever is still standing puts their hands up in surrender.
OK... Now the problem is they have come to your land, killed your men, often men you knew and had that unique connection of men under fire with, bombed and raped and murdered your women and civilian men, even your sons and daughters. And that's where you apply the Rules? Never mind that if they had got the drop on you and yours first, they'd have been the ones who'd have fried you, mowed you down and cheered while recording the aftermath of your corpses on their phones. For their motherland and their rich old prick.
To be perfectly honest I'm more surprised that the Ukrainians and any military(even the Russians) for that matter in history in such circumstances accept surrender and the whole "Geneva convention" stuff. I grew up with rellies who had fought in WW2(And no, not on the nazi side. Feck off. 😁) and I did hear discussion around this sorta thing. It seemed to be a mix of:Well we let them surrender because by doing so we hoped they'd do the same with us if positions were reversed and We let them surrender because we wanted to show and know we were the ones in the right.
With Ukrainian forces I would say that first reason is a dead duck at this stage, but the second is still in play.
I mean of course I'm emotionally invested. Russia has invaded a sovereign nation for no good reason other than to flex its muscles and grab some land; and its soldiers are destroying and violating their villages, cities, infrastructure, and most importantly their people. How would any right-minded person not be emotionally invested?
And that's aside from my own personal connections to Ukraine which I have no intention of going into on this forum.
Re Slava's pm to Ronivek. A nasty ignorant coward shows his true colours.
Apologies for my part in it; but I don't like being called pro-Kremlin or having stances or opinions attributed to me which I have never stated nor implied.
The EU sanctions should hurt Russia but the rumblings out of Brussels today haven't been great.
They're talking about "technical" problems concerning existing contracts. I'm worried they might do the usual and let existing contracts complete but only prevent new contracts being entered into. In other words likely to be no immediate pain for Russia.
As for Putin and Lavrov's relatives I mean surely they rarely leave Russia anyway? And Putin can get his hands on whatever luxuries they might desire I'm sure; so not likely to actually hurt them.
Your actual words aren't important enough to search, but you said you posted the Ukrainian actions to show not all Ukrainians were 'good guys'.
It was only a couple of pages back, so everyone remembers it. You're bordering on Comical Ali levels at this stage.
Classic example of projecting one's rabidness on others. Do anyone here shout at others with caps? You are strangly emotionally invested.
Implied where might I add. Contributors, this is where the thread is being de-railed. This sort of nonsense.
And yet still no quote to show where I said anything about Ukraine forces in general being "bad guys". Nor even any quote or post which even implies equivalence between Ukraine's Armed Forces and Russia's Armed Forces. I've even explained my position yet again over the last page or so; and you're still arguing the toss over it.
But sure keep on arguing with the voices in your head.
You were raising Ukraine forces actions as being 'bad guys'. Fcuk off with that frankly. It's false equivalence to claim both sides are bad guys.
You find out your village and family have been violated by scum bags and you come across their foreign compatriots you going to get guard them or set off to kill more of the bastards?
I wouldn't say Russia bad myself, it's not strong enough. I'd use words like Evil, twisted, sick, perverted to start with.
Maybe reply to what a post is actually saying rather than your knee-jerk emotive reaction about what it's saying in your own personal fantasy world?
Nowhere did I make or imply any comparisons to raping and murdering children; in fact I didn't even bring it up. Obviously raping and murdering children is generally considered by almost the entirety of the world to be amongst the most vile acts that involve a human doing something to any other human; and I fully agree with that sentiment. Every Russian involved in those actions should be pursued to the ends of the earth and punished appropriately; and to me appropriate punishment is not a simple and quick bullet to the head.
And nowhere did I claim or imply that invaders who raped and murdered wouldn't to some extent be punished summarily by defenders; in any past conflict or any hypothetical future conflict I'm sure that it happened and will happen to some extent or other.
But the argument "well it happened in other wars so it's okay if it happens here"; if that's the argument you're trying to make; I do not agree with. It is not okay if it happens here; and not even because I feel any sympathy for the Russian soldiers but because it is likely to hurt the Ukrainian people and Ukraine as a nation both in the short-term as they repel the Russian invasion and long-term as they try to rebuild from it.
Even though I can understand why it's happening, and even sympathise with any Ukrainian soldier who might mistreat a Russian prisoner; that doesn't change that fact.
Which please? Can you point me there?
The children have really taken over this thread.
That's why all the serious posters have gone to the other one.
That plane seems to be coming from. Leninavan airfield.
with what I would I consider as I'd consider
I suppose it's hard to engage in debate when you can't even string a single sentence together.
Yes; there is a clear difference between the Ukraine and Russian governments. Russia at best allows its troops to loot, rape and pillage; and at worst encourages it actively as part of their overall strategy. Ukraine clearly does not; and has repeatedly asked anyone fighting on Ukraine's behalf to obey the Geneva Convention.
Likewise there is a clear difference between an invading army soldier violating the rights of a peaceful citizens of a defending country; and a soldier defending their country violating the rights of an aggressor attacking that country.
And Russia's actions from the very beginning are the primary reason and cause for any Russian soldiers being mistreated (if it is actually happening); that's also blindingly obvious.
Because I do not engage in debate with what I'd consider as a "3/4s". Hope that translates to Moskovite.
Exact same as raping and murdering children so therefore but but both sides.
what the f*ck would happen in any country where invaders were raping and murdering their children and wives.
Anytime Vlad.
One set of aggressors and invaders. It's as simple as you put it. Ukraine good and Russia bad.
If you can't comprehend that simple fact then you are exactly what you describe other posters as.
Thanks for your excellent contribution. Outstanding stuff.
Has there ever been a war where atrocities have not been carried out by both sides?
No doubt there are instances of Ukrainian soldiers acting like this (that incident may actually be Georgian fighters), however one differences is the Ukrainian Government has acknowledged such allegations can happen and promised an investigation and appropriate consequences for those responsible if true, unlike Russia who simply ignores the evidence and blame it all on the other side or write it off as propaganda using fantastic actors.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's in anyway acceptable, but, there are differences between what appears to be the odd breakaway shooting of the aggressors soldiers and what appears to be widespread raping, torturing and murdering of civilian men, women and children.
Where did I claim any equivalency? Please quote where I make any claims or assertions about equivalency between Russia and Ukraine.
What is the **** point of having a discussion if people aren't going to actually discuss anything; and just spew emotive nonsense every time they see something they don't like?
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