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Child Item

When will Comedy End?

Amias

When you think about it, Generation after Generation seem to be offended by the previous Generations take on what was acceptable as comedy & humour.

With the power of Social media and the Internet, it seems that it’s highly likely that many comedians past acts ( which was acceptable in the past ) will and does come back to haunt them.

I fear that comedy and humour are on their last legs.

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gormdubhgorm

Context is key to comedy. And in the rush many have to be offended. They do not realise that more intelligent comedians, say things for shock value on the face of it. But the reality is to draw attention to an issue and try and make people look at all the angles of the issue.

The Jimmy Carr Holocaust joke is an example of this. If you look at the edited version that went viral. Jimmy Carr = racist. But if you see the whole bit in context it is completely different. Also Carr is trying to make an underlying point that many of the other minorities in the holocaust get overlooked. Such as the gypsies, disabled and so on. His joke was told to shock and bring attention to this fact. As simple as that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNhYjB7n5B4

Now I am not a particular fan of Carr's comedy. But I can see how he has a certain style and intelligence behind his quips. There is more often than not a double edge to them. To try and make people reflect on themselves.

In the rush to be outraged context is lost - and the underlying point is lost. Future comedians will have to have developed the tools to navigate this.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603580#Comment_118603580

Now you're strawmanning, no one mentioned disabled kids originally

The arrogance of the WOKE left is nothing new but policing who can be a target of humour is downright sinister

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604133#Comment_118604133

Ehhhh, The Dunne originally referenced it in Post 74 when he said.....

Frankie Boyle, the darling of the left these days, once made a joke about katie Price only marrying a cage fighter because her disabled son Harvey had crazy handicapped strength and her husband was there to stop Harvey raping her.

I laughed at the joke, not because I find rape or disability funny, but because of how shocking it was.

Then Rob316 followed up in Post 78 when he said

I have a disabled son and I found that Frankie Boyle joke about Jordan funny. Funny as in that is outrageous, genius to come up with that actually.

Do I laugh at my son and other mentally disabled kids? No but these jokes are meant to provoke the taboo and your darkest thoughts.

Are you reading the right thread at all, or just waiting on today's opportunity to shoehorn in the word WOKE?

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603333#Comment_118603333

The thing is, Stephen Fry was subsequently so outraged by Jan Moir's bigoted article on Stephen Gately that he urged his Twitter followers to complain to the Press Complaints Commission about her which resulted in the PCC website crashing and Advertisers at the time pulling their money from the Daily Mail.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604233#Comment_118604233

I did not know that. That's mad

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603097#Comment_118603097

It's not black and white like that, there's nuances. There are racist and sexist jokes that are racist and sexist just for the sake of being racist and sexist, they play into stereotypes and it's just mean-spirited there's no criticism or satire involved. Who's doing the mocking is also important, we see that in almost every nationality, a lot of people don't like hearing other nationalities slag off their country even though they will happily slag it off themselves.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118604939#Comment_118604939

I agree. There will always be taboos in society and things you cannot say, and well-crafted jokes about them can act as a bit of a release valve. There's a long tradition of this in human society of comedians or clowns or jesters or whatever taking norms and turning them upside down, but there's a deeper element to it than just to cause havoc.

Stewart Lee had a routine where he talked about comedians stealing jokes which showed how the stripping of irony changes its nature subtly but quite deeply. It was Jim Davidson taking a joke from Jimmy Carr which went,

“A big girl once came up to me after a show and said ‘I think you’re fatist’. I said, ‘no, I think you’re fattest.'”

In Jimmy Carr's version, it's played as an innocent misunderstanding of the word 'fatist'. In Davidson's version, there's no misunderstanding, it's just a put-down.

Quantum Erasure

i know its been a while, but just saw this re. Jimmy Carr's Gypsy joke, thought it was very well put

riclad

i think comedy will continue forever, its just now people will complain if jokes are sexist, racist or anti lgbt .that still leaves unlimited subject matter for writers and comedians. no one makes mother in law jokes any more .not a great loss.alternative comedy started in the 80s as a reaction against old style racist,sexist comedians. i think some of the funniest creative comedians are women, tina fey,amy poehler.comedy podcasts are booming, with a wide range of diverse voices, black,white, different minoritys.yolu can start a podcast for almost nothing if you are funny you,ll get an audience.Yes some people actors, comedians are being cancelled ,eg if they are found to be abusive to women or racist .Its like music,every generation has its own taste,standards , some old tv shows look bad with jokes about women,cooking,minoritys .people still watch friends ,the office,frasier,cheers , even if some shows look slightly old fashioned they can be entertaining

Quantum Erasure

https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2020/07/all-your-frais-are-problematic/

The character of Frasier is an incel. Martin is a homophobe. Niles is a stalker. And the less said about Maris the better!

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812101#Comment_118812101

That article seems intent on pointing out the issues it hopes to have with it. It starts with pointing out the absence of people with colour.

You could almost pick any show that was aired at the same time and say the same.

riclad

its ridiculous to expect all programs made 10, 20 years ago to be in line with with current trends about feminism ,equal rights, lgbt rights , young people now are more broadminded ,respectful of minoritys and equal rights for monoritys. i,m glad that more comedys feature minority groups,instead of just middle class white familys. its like buying a 7 year old android phone and complaining because its slow, and does not run all the latest apps and stream games like a new iphone . frasier and cheers are very funny programs to watch, its true theres no characters from black or minority groups but you could say that about most comedys made at that time.

TheIrishGrover

What was the number one sitcom for the last few years? A "comedy" about "Nerds" huh huh huh. Look, nerds are funny looking and wear glasses and watch Star Trek and can't talk to girls. And as it went on, it became more obvious that the, yeah, the REAL fun was to be had at the guy very obviously on the Autism spectrum. Hur hur hur. Look ow socially awkward he is. Let's give him a spinoff about him being awkward as a kid!

Before that, it was "Hey, look at this group of "Mates" in the most diverse city in the US but never introduce a new character of colour (Or any new character at all really).

Now, I was never a fan of Friends or The Big Bang Theory. Not because of any offense or anything. I just found them (Especially TBBT) to be the most obvious and lazy "comedy" writing out there. I just found them painfully unfunny.

But my point is, everyone can be offended by anything. And so many people think along the lines of "Oh such and such a show is so offensive. I'm much more enlightened. You wouldn't catch me watching Friends because they are all white. I'll stick to TBBT with it's more diverse characters".

I do believe that there are people out there who seem to be almost professionally outraged. But there are also jokes that are genuienly offensive in that their intent is to be offensive. And there are jokes that just do not age well.

Tangentially, I recently re-watched The West Wing and sure, it has its problems but in general it holds up very well. I then went on to Sorkn's series "Studio 60" which I remember liking a lot..... Oh boy. There is ABSOLLUTELY a whole #meetoo thing going on there. And this is not me being overly sensitive. That show did NOT age well. At all!

riclad

look at the big bang theory ,it features an indian character, an autistic character, storys about his friends relationship with his indian family.i see no harm in having a comedy about nerds who are obsessed with science, star trek, video games, superhero comicbooks.Theres real people like that. in later seasons ross dates a black woman,its not all white ,it gets better .i agree its not realistic to be set in new york and to just feature a mostly white cast.if you watch old programs from the 80s, 90s some are just very sexist, in the way they treat women, women are cast based on how they look, theres no average looking people in them apart from the older father ,mother. i think friends is still popular and the scripts are well written and funny and young people still watch that program. After the cosby show there was a wave of comedy shows made with an all black cast, martin,living single , a different world which are still worth watching today.

Manach

In King Lear, the Fool was granted a pardon for uttering incomfortable truth to those in power.

Today, we are heading into a world where the fool would likely be arrested and charged.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603333#Comment_118603333

Good quote in fairness.

And that’s why Will Smith is such an idiot- playing the offended champion of womens rights card to justify violence to a comedian FFS - I don’t know much about Chris Rock to be fair; reports are he’s not a terribly likeable individual; while his “joke” wasn’t funny, it also wasn’t particularly offensive - it was more a childish schoolboy comment - but Jesus the reaction - I reckon Smith thought he’d have the WOKE crowd behind him and to a degree he did, on the night but he just looks like a fool now.

Hopefully this episode will convince people to just switch off or don’t attend a concert in future if they dont like something as opposed to get all outraged about it.

On another similar extreme but somewhat reversed situation , Graham Lenihan take note- you’ve fcked up your life and your marriage because someone on the internet was “wrong” - you should have taken the advice of “step away from the keyboard” that I’m sure many of your former friends gave you. Far from being cancelled I think in Grahams case he did most of the cancelling himself through his actions- but his blaming others.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866510#Comment_118866510

Bernard Manning kept himself in a comfortable existence long after he was cancelled from TV- his brand of humour certainly wasn’t a sophisticated mirror on society thing- he simply gave his dwindling but core hardened bigoted and racist audience exactly what they wanted.

Not all comedians are good at that sophisticated clever humour- I’m not sure even Jimmy Carr is that good at it but he’s certainly made a good point on this occasion- he’s told the truth about what many or even what most people think of Roma in Europe- and many laughed, albeit nervously. Regardless of what you think of the comedian saying the jokes, I think society needs that sort of humour to be present -,we’re not as perfect and inclusive etc as we’d like to think we are and comedians have a role in reminding us of that.

The day most of the audience stop laughing at a Jimmy Carr concert, that’s the day I think we’d need to be very concerned on just how dreary and depressing we’ve all become

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Comedy will never die. Not GOOD comedy anyway.

The problem with the likes of Bernard Manning is that for me, he wasn't actually all that funny. He told boring jokes I heard in the playground when I was a kid. That brand of comedy dying wouldn't be a bad thing, not because it's offensive, but because it's ****. Of course humour is subjective, but there are a lot more intelligent and more observant and satirical comedians out there.

Comedy fiths back anyway. Look at Jonathan Pie, Titania Magrath - challenging offended people for being offended via comedy. Daniel Sloss is another one with routines based on darker material.

Comedy got challenged and has risen to the challenge, and is better for it

Rothko

Silly thread title. How can comedy ever end?

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118866252#Comment_118866252

Another possible answer is the "woke" movement to cancel everything is exaggerated. Humour changes as society evolves, it's not new to this generation.

Suckit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869767#Comment_118869767

Any exaggeration would surely leave nothing left to be cancelled.

I would like to add, a very, very small portion of humour is unoffensive, it would make for very boring comedy. The easiest way going forward would be just to tell all of the people that get offended beforehand not to read/listen/watch any further. That way they can't get offended, won't be able to comment on it, and won't expect any replies to their outrage or questions if they do.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118591781#Comment_118591781

This is exactly it. There has always been that kind of comedy.

I get some old comedy in my Tiktok feed and I watch it to see how it's changed. Bernard Manning doing Irish jokes and Pa*i jokes and that kind of thing. They're not generally funny now because they were dealing with contemporary anxieties that don't necessarily exist now.

But it's interesting to see how comedy seems to have changed. It used to be focused more on groups, races, nationalities, ethnic groups and so on. That has become old hat and Now it's more focused on roasting individuals. I was wondering when the comedy roast as we know it originate. I don't really remember them before the 2000s with celebrity roasts. But even then, its consensual.

I don't think comedy will ever die. But it has always changed form and will continue to change form. Old people won't like new comedy and old people have never liked new comedy. That's nothing to worry about.

Strumms

https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/07/only-fools-and-horses-receives-offensive-racial-language-warning-15218167/

warning now for racist content…

French Toast

https://youtu.be/sHxltHWbUJE

In the opening 30 seconds of this Liam Clancy pokes fun at Travellers by painting them as flea-ridden thieves. This is included on Spotify as well.

Pavee Point and John Connors would blow a gasket were it said today.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869935#Comment_118869935

Completely disagree. The vast majority of comedy is inoffensive and that has always been the case.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869984#Comment_118869984

I honestly think people who are anti-woke or whatever they call themselves spend more time looking for things that the woke mob should cancel than the woke mob do.

French Toast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870219#Comment_118870219

Maybe in some cases, maybe not in others.

For the most part people are far more opinionated and polarised online than in reality.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118869975#Comment_118869975

Yeah, and?

It has some pretty offensive language by today's standards.

Uncle Albert looking over at the jukebox surrounded by black lads and saying "I can't hear myself think with all that monkey music" is pretty on the nose.

OFAH was pretty woke for its day but times have changed to the point where things like calling black people monkeys is generally considered out of order. It wasn't meant to offend in its day so how to clear up the discrepancy? Putting a small label on it to say that it contains language that's offensive by today's standards, is a decent compromise. Much better than removing the dialogue.

Strumms

because once you start pandering with announcements.. for every comment or intonation that might offend, next…you realise it’s just not worth the hassle..

Del also refers to an Irish lad as a ‘paddy’…in one episode.. Brendan I think…unlikely to be the same outrage from the woke brigade over that. Why no announcements for that ?

im not offended it’s of it’s time…I can be a grown up and accepting it’s of it’s time.

Soon the tv channels will start losing add revenue as there will have to be a 30 second announcement before each showing, apologising for the ‘language’ and intolerance and racism.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870338#Comment_118870338

Paddy isn't as overtly offensive as monkey. Paddy can be affectionate without any offense involved Paddy's day for example. You can't really call a black person a monkey without intentionally causing offense.

And the episode didn't mean to use monkey in today's meaningful the term. It was much less offensive back then.

You see it as pandering, I see it as putting the art into its context so it can be enjoyed as intended rather than with today's standards of the term monkey.

Do you get offended by the term Paddy in OFAH? I don't, so if neither of us are offended by it, why are we discussing it beside the term monkey for black lads?