Following on from
this thread
Please remain civil or posting privileges will be removed
Even worse from SF's POV, forming a government without FF or FG would have required the support of several of the 'nonideological' independents like Lowry and McGrath, to cite just one constituency. You could just feel FF and FG willing SF to make themselves look ridiculous by trying to 'woo' those guys...
While our opinions change somewhat as we age, if you grew up with the same issues you see the next generation facing, it might seem time for a change. We've a lot of parents and Grandparents looking at their kids struggling.
Some interesting reading on the breakdown of the latest Red C Poll especially on the first preference vote intention graph. SF leading the way is all age categories except the 55+, I don't know whether that is good or bad considering that the younger population tends not to come out and vote, FG leading the way in the over 55's which is the age category that do come out and vote. Then again there is just a 3% difference in that age group between FG and SF
It's just one stock deflection taken from the 10p Lucky Bag of diversion.
I do hope FG continue to believe it's opposition and the electorate that are wrong and not them. It will ensure their quickened departure.
The Health Service is heading back to business as usual, sadly. Still no Slaintecare. No Moriarty action etc. etc.
Some posters refuse to recognise exclusionary politics when they are blatantly practiced. The C&S government was an attempt to exclude any chance they would lose control of the power swap and this coalition is the last desperate attempt to hold on and they are making a bags of it.
I could see their support fall by 5-10 points if they say they will go into coalition in the same way again.
Could I care less? I was asked a question, I answered it honestly, take it or leave it.
The posting history tells another story, Francie. Aint no one buying it I am afraid.
Not to go into it in detail as not the thread but if SF had managed to get any parties they would have stopped the coalition. They had first conversations with the Greens after all. FG said they would go into opposition etc etc.
FF decision will be made by the supporters, a lot of supporters unhappy because they felt MM pushed a deal because he wanted to be Taoiseach. So any person wanting to be leader is going to push that message. As I said already ask the supporters on the street and see what the reaction is. No idea why any political party thinks it is a good idea to encourage people to create multiple accounts online to abuse oppositions party supporters, especially in the knowledge that at some stage you will need another party to get into government
Why do government supporters keep bringing up this is up that SF ranaway from government after the last election, when it was clear that a government could not have been formed by any of FF/FG or SF with 2 of them going in together? The numbers were not there and if a patch work quilt of a government was formed with the likes of PBP it wouldn't have lasted a month with the likes of Murphy or Boyd Barret in it, who have would walked at the first disagreement or the first crisis.
Also I think the reason for FG's miserable performance in the polls is also related to how they wasted their time in government after promising in 2011 "New Politics" with an end to the cronyism and corruption that had occurred during FF tenure in government. Those promises made by FG are now coming back to haunt them as they are showing not just be the same as FF with the cronyism and corruption but actually they are worse and that is without even starting at the complete shambles that has been made of the Health Service, housing and not to mention the FG leader under criminal investigation. I do wonder would this investigation have been completed already if he was not in government.
No lie. Do you want me to show you YET AGAIN where I posted in 2011 what SF would have to do to get me and others to vote for them?
I have defended SF on issues related to the conflict/war because of the partitionist and Unionist narratives presented here but I did not vote for them in a GE until the last one.
No issue saying who I voted for in the past - I would be more ashamed to say I voted FG but the sad truth is I did vote for them.
Yeah but the numbers were not there, realistically, for SF to form a government without the involvement of FF or FG. If neither of those parties were prepared to play ball what could SF do? If FF go into the next election, as it appears they will, leaving the door open to a deal with SF, that completely changes the ball game.
Well that is a lie, given you have been pounding the SF drum since 2010 on this site... :)
The scale of the issue can be seen in the documentation that accompanied the investigation. The programme actually called out the government on it's failure to introduce any meaningful reform. I would add, that there is fairly clear indications that the governments we have had since the Mahon Tribunal have been complicit in allowing it to continue.
I don't disagree, just pointing out that all TD's are at the same BS. It seems a few people ike to point fingers at a party but disregards it when another party member is at the same carry on
Very simple, if they get something printed and they don't collect or they don't use. They pay for it out of their wages
The opposition had a mandate the last time but ran for cover. Easier to sit on sidelines when covid was around, what if we have another major issue like that?
In terms of a combination of all 3 it is hard to tell. The carry on of some of the parties in opposition mean you have FF supporters who would rather go into government with anyone than a certain party you mention.
Time will tell when MM steps down and the leader of FF will be picked, I expect you might have leadership battle and they will have to make a call if they will or won't go into partnership with an opposition party. The members will then decide but personally from what I can see the mood is certainly swinging more and more toward "no f**king chance".
I assume the Greens will be happy to join into the government again as they will get to actually do some good, some parties prefer to talk about it and not do anything.
I think some reforms have taken place. Here in Tipperary, we no longer have North and South Co Councils. Just one Tipperary Co Co. Unless you mean other reforms?
Your slippery eel act is embarrassing but so be it. I don't care about your opinion on other threads. I am asking simple questions because you are suggesting reform is not needed. I have educated you on the proposed reforms and increased powers of investigation - you're welcome.
Myself and Francie have been asking the same question over and over and you continue to evade it. Why hasn't the FFG government implemented the promised reforms around the local government?
That is why the election campaign will be so fascinating in this new era of utterly butterly merger/I can't believe civil war politics is over.
They will be asked if they will coalesce with one another again, and what do they say? How do you offer something different while saying you will just do what you did before?
Fascinating really.
Nothing is certain in life. But it's a prediction and better than "zero chance" and "insert party name will be toast in next election" which we see all the time here. Today it is the turn of FG. Tomorrow? well who knows
The specific numbers aren't really the issue here; the point I was making was about the intentions of the parties, specifically Fianna Fail.
You were assuming that if FF + FG +Green had the numbers to form another government then that would happen. I don't think this can be taken for granted at all.
All the signs are that SF will come out of the next election as clearly the largest party, with a massive mandate. But it may still not have the numbers to form its favoured 'broad left' coalition. In that scenario, is FF really going to bring a jaded FG, in power for nearly 15 years, back for another term?
Still waiting on a government thread, to hear your view on the government's failure to act on promises made by Jan O'Sulivan and Phil Hogan.
The buck very much stops with the government on reform here.
They’re not the only ones. Former TD, Seamus Healy used them to print calendars. What was really annoying about this was including his WUAG County Councilor on it too.
Mind you, they were handy to stick on the fridge once the top and bottom were cut off
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/oireachtas-printing-controversy-td-insists-his-72500-calendars-are-not-for-christmas-35299615.html
Again, that is all just regurgitation. I can read that in a newspaper or press release on the Oireachtas website. The only thing original in your post is invective directed at me. As I said already, you can read about my criticism of the Councils in plenty of threads.
...its very interesting to watch the amount of people that are slowly abandoning the major parties, im meeting more and more life long supporters that have had enough of these parties, something fundamental is clearly going wrong in these parties, a very interesting phenomenon
I feel your pain. I voted FG for 20+ years right up until 2011. Never ever again. The New Politics lie sunk me. Catherine Connolly got my #1 in 2016 and 2020 and she has been a brilliant TD. One of the best in the Dail. I gave my #2 to the Social Democrat candidate but unfortunately he did not get in.
Just because it's common, doesn't make it right. I am sure that taxpayer money could be spent on more worthwhile causes amongst our public services.
To my eternal shame I decided to trust FG again. I'll never forgive myself they completely abused my trust.
Out of pure curiosity who got your vote in 2016?
I see you are selectively only remmebering some of what I have said.
My goal is to end the toxic power swap we have had here for 100 years. I won't be floating in FG waters for a long long time nor FF's.
The Greens got a preference from me last time but unlikely the next time out.
It wasn't a putdown at all just some reality. The next general election is over 700 days away. Maybe in that time as a floating voter you might see some promise in one of the current government parties and vote for them. I think you mentioned before you only voted for SF for the first time in the last election so they must have let you down when they had no appetite for forming a government.
I'd say (probably more of a hope tbh) it will take a lot closer to 10 years to change most floating voters to ever vote FG again. I definitely can't imagine it would be in the next 2 years.
I honestly think FG are completely blind or could not care less to how big a dislike there is out there for them. It's going to be a tough road back, and it's going to get worse when nothing is changing/ everything staying the same.
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