If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
Not being able to answer the questions in a court is usually taken as guilt or contempt Yurt.
If referencing the country it is 'the' US. I had no 'the' in there, the mistake is yours and Yurt's.
Zelenskiy's spot on.
Military neutrality is just cheap cowardice at the end of the day. Plain and simple. We'll do all the sugary stuff like humanitarian aid but when it comes down to it we don't stand with any country under attack.
We're special, or so we believe. We expect everyone else to do the dirty work of defending democracies on our behalf and refuse to contribute one iota.
No one else is fooled and i'd like to see more of our morally reprehensible position exposed.
We should make it a condition of our entry into NATO that Zelensky agrees to drop all the superfluous vowels and consonants from his name.
ok so you don't trust the people who sit around the table at NATO wielding huge influence.
Well I have news for you, 21 of the 27 members of NATO are also in the EU. As part of the EU, these very same people who you do not trust, sit around a table where they wield huge influence on Ireland now.
So I assume that you are also in favour of leaving the EU
Nope. I treat the decisions of the EU with the same critical thought that I treat the decisions of the UN etc.
Being in the EU is not incompatible with our goals as a nation, being in NATO is incompatible with our neutrality. Very simple really.
Ok so you trust them when around the EU table but not the Nato table.
Your words, you do not trust these people (but you do sometimes).
We are not neutral. We are modern western democracy.
It is offensive to suggest that ordinary decent Irish people in this country are in any way "neutral" between tyranny and democracy. They aren't. And it's time for the government to move on it.
No it's not time to join NATO, we need to be able to defend ourselves to some degree before thinking about defending others.
We are a part of the EU and we can influence our own affairs and that the goals of the EU are compatible with ours. If the EU establish a military alliance there is a reason why we have to have a referendum on joining. We have a choice as a nation. A choice I am quite willing to observe if it gets a majority.
We are a neutral country militarily so therefore membership of NATO is incompatible with that. My principal objection to NATO is around the power and influence of it's primary members and NATO performing to their objectives and agendas, that may not be ours.
As I say, very simple really.
Quite happy to have a referendum on the issue.
Being in Putin's Russia is incompatible with Ukraine's independence.
Couldn't agree more.
So who do you trust Francie. Last week you didn't trust the Irish people or the Irish Government, yesterday you didn't trust the UN, today you don't trust the EU....
You are a bluffer.
We are in the EU.
We are not politically neutral.
We are not economically neutral
We are not socially or culturally neutral....
...yet we pretend to be militarily neutral.
Its like we want to be children forever, living in Peter Pan's Nevernever land where we never have to grow up and live in the real world.
I use my critical faculties mark. If you give blind trust to anyone, that's your issue tbh.
If you think that arrogant disparaging of our history of neutrality will help convince the electorate, keep it up.
So you dont trust anyone and you are going to spray everyone with your gutter and lies?
I guess that is why you are one of the most anti-EU posters on the site as well.
Grand so.
Well, at least I am read up on the history of Irelands 'neutrality' unlike yourself who refuses to read or educate themselves on the matter.
What?
I am not aware of any gap in my knowledge of our neutrality mark.
.
Yes, you know it all Francie, no need to add or grow at all at all....
Tomorrow you will be back spouting some new shite. It's like debating different people tbh.
Why is the issue of us joining NATO about me Mark?
Do you think that slinging some invective at me is going to help your cause?
Stick to the post not the poster please.
Il let yous into a secret....ffg have zero intention of joining nato,its a sop to their extremly naive base,
and basically an attempt to control narrative as they made an utter balls of covid and its running rampant,and they cant control cost of living....so ultimaely its a politically advantagous distraction
Micheal martin has no interest in becoming a latter day john redmond and sending irish off to die in forgien wars
Boris johnson was severly wounded and looked touch and go as regards survival over his covid partirs,until media had a war to fall and row in behind him over
Germans and french are happy to distract as they arent ready for the ecb to raise interest rates and cool inflation,causing an econmic slowdown coming out of covid
one thing sure as fcuk,none of em beyond a superficial level care on the ordinary ukrainins,as they let russia do exact same for years in syria to like of homs etc.......
whole thing is a media storm,dreamt up by the editor of the sun,which deosnt stand up scrutiny
The world is entering a new phase of conflict. It's a war we'll be part of one way or another. Our European neighbours will not tolerate fecklessness in terms of defence on their western flank and they will expect every country to nail the colours to the mast whether that means joining NATO or not.
We won't get away with being cowardly and cheap any longer. Spongers aren't liked generally but when the interests of others are at stake you'll find out just how much they aren't liked.
And it's not before time. We should have grown up long a go.
"Military neutrality" is over for Ireland. It's just a matter of when it's formalised.
If it is joining a European alliance then the people will decide. If you adopt that attitude in the campaign ('grow up') I don't fancy your chances.
I dont see how equating getting involved with wars,which have nothing to do with us,is now regarded as "mature",seems a bit of a misnomer tbh
What exaxtly do you preceive an eu army being involved in?,what i preceive it getting involved in along europes border and internally is not something i think ireland (or any civilised country) should be doing anyway
Dress it up in rethoric and dogma all yous want,but yous havnt provided any facts and logic to support your position
Defending yourself against an aggressor is not the same as starting a war
Fighting off an invader is not aggression,its defense
Thats what a club like NATO does,it's a group scheme for defense
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