If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
So you're anti NATO but think Ukraine should be in NATO because the protection it affords?
Here Francie, you're a waste of time.
I said earlier I won't insult your intelligence. At the risk of going back on my word, I'll bow out for today.
This is a bit like the IRA saying they would drive the British from Ireland.
What would you expect a militant force to say Yurt...'eh, well maybe we will gain a foothold in Ukraine and see how we get on and then maybe invade the rest of Europe'.
Of course they are going to talk up what they are going to do. As we have seen they seem to be struggling at base one.
I am anti US being in NATO. The topic of the thread.
Ukraine wanted to and still wants to be in NATO, what they feared would happen because they weren't in it, has happened.
Again, the facts change and you don't change your mind. Today we are hearing reports that the Russians are preparing to use chemical weapons in Ukraine. I guess if/when this happens you will still be here with your soft weasel words about how nothing has really changed.....
With Finland and Sweden looking to join, Ireland could soon be the obvious Achilles heel to Europe
But sure our legendary peace keeping/immigrant ferrying status would be threatened if we were part of NATO...
Ireland has taken 10,000 Ukrainian refugees so far, with talks of up to 200,000 being taken in
Russia threatening the use of nuclear weapons on a weekly basis
Intelligence reports growing on the proposed use of Russian chemical weapons
The biggest land war raging in Europe since 1945...
... and we have Francie here saying nothing has changed at all!
Comical Ali
Ahahahaha. Ah for f*ck sake! Now we're getting somewhere.
You want defence for Europe but defanged from from the thing that makes it effective.
We're now getting to the point where you're finally being honest. This isn't about defence, security of the continent or being "anti-war", it's about wingnut anti-Americanism.
For once Francie, your candour is noted and appreciated.
Unbelievable.
???
What?
Have you mistaken an emphasis on 'us' for US? If so apologies, but with 'the' missing you really should have worked it out.
Chemical weapons have been used in Syria too. Didn't change my mind about us being in NATO then.
Use of CW is a war crime.
Are you too lazy to respond?
As I said, the facts changed on the ground since the invasion, but Francie like the Iron Lady is not for turning. Hence why you are zealot.
The Russians could land a division in Galway Bay tomorrow and Francie would be posting his usual talking points here.
Syria is not in Europe Francie.....
Course they could mark. Of course they could.
So?
Yanks bad, Hamas not so much.
Poor ol Ruari O'Bradaigh was right about SF, Workers Party part deux
You don't think that when European security is threatened has nothing to do with it?
You don't think that anything has changed since Feb, as if we are still living likes its 2021?
I see by the one-word answers you have run out of gumption and options now.....
You are a beaten docket, Francie. Out of ideas, morals and options.
Have you ..
Didn't think so
Things changed in 2014 too, invasion and annexation. People were still going to Putin making deals on energy, looking for his vote in the UN, allowing him channel his money through Europe etc.
European security has been under threat and has been breached also for a very long time.
What a sh*tshow this thread has become.
So you won't accept any criticism of NATO without accusing the person making it of being a pro-Russian traitor?
In that case there's no "debate" is there, so what are we even talking for?
We're not neutral as seen over the last few years , burying our heads in the muck saying we have a piece of paper with neutral written on it and that's going to protect us if everything goes tits up .
It's cowardice nothing more ,
Francie would be straight on to boards to tell us how he prefers borscht to fish and chips in any case
Jesus. From one of NATO's principal members we get this. Do as I say, not as I do.
Achilles heel to Europe?
Are you worried that if Ireland is invaded and the population massacred that might hurt Europe's strategic position? Seems like an odd concern for an Irish person.
We are building up quite a litany of stock scary phrases.
Ok, so we are back to the talking points of yesterday, which are null and void, round and round we go....
Do you have ANYTHING original to add, or are you just going through the motions now, hoping someone will stop making a fool of you?
Much of the criticism is boilerplate boogyman nonsense that perhaps not so coincidentally aligns directly with Putinite garbage.
The "anti-war left" can't see the wood from the trees. NATO, very quietly, and without much fanfare created the security conditions for Europe to thrive post-WW2. There is no doubt that the treaty alliance has prevented far more wars than it has ever sparked.
Of all it's interventions, which are fewer than you make out, perhaps Libya is the only one you could file under hubris and mistake. And that's only because of a miscalculous of the outcome of removing Gadaffi, not because anyone misses him sponsering terrorism in Europe or his brutal atrophied state ran by secret police.
I'll take 75 years of European peace and the flourishing of democracy and the EU over a misstep in Libya.
The "anti-war left" are in a dreamworld where they think the Europe of the 21st century came to being because of lollipops and rainbows. It was built out of the ashes of a hellish war and carefully protected and sheltered. That shelter and protection was overwhelmingly NATO. The civilian aspect of the construction of a democratic liberal consensus based order would not have been possible without it.
In case you're wondering why every two bit dictator, Stalinist or fascist militarist hates NATO, it's because it radically limits their ability to create the conditions for bloodletting and territorial power grabs.
Honestly, and I'll be open about this, long may it protect European from idiots, the malignant and the forces of autocracy.
I refuse to recognise the self appointed chair of this debate.
There has been zero 'original' thoughts expressed in this entire debate incidently.
Which is why I hold with my original position that we have no reason to join NATO or end neutrality and should continue playing the valuable role we do.
That is pretty weak in fairness. Infosys is a huge IT company that employs 270,000 people worldwide. What exactly is expected here, apart from shifting the goalposts.
One of NATO's leaders to take the action he is asking of others?
Is it any wonder some mistrust them mark?
It's the prototypical rhetoric used by the Yanks to keep their own population permanently terrified and compliant with their lunacy... they've been trying desperately to spread the same fear-mongering mantra to their "friends in Europe" for quite a long time now.
You will always get people on this side of the pond who unwittingly do their bidding for them - as you can see on this thread. But it's easy enough to see through it, for anyone with their eyes open.
