We might like to think so, but its unlikely to happen. The average Russian's mind has already been made up courtesy of all the domestic propaganda.
The human mind gets very entrenched early on and once it does, Paul on the road to Damascus moments are rare.
"There will have been a war going on, both sides equally to blame"
"Don't try to tell us what it was like, you didn't have to live through the sanctions"
"You must have sympathy for all those (average) Russians who have been against Putin for years but can't get rid of him."
"A lot of that didn't happen, that was Western media and propaganda"
"It was the US's fault for <insert reason variant here>"
Anoth
another red flag equivalent. There is no end to it
I think you prefer the Republicans of the 2000s - the ones who were gung-ho for adventures abroad. But that was a different time and different circumstances. America had undergone a very significant terrorist attack and the public was out for blood. You could have sold them anything under the banner of killing terrorists or enemies of America.
The Republican party of today's America is obviously going to be a bit different. They still have to listen to their public, and the American public has long expressed a sentiment of bringing the boys home. It's been a promise of American presidential candidates since Obama. Currently, American opinion on what should be done in Ukraine is divided. It appears they're in favour of hurting Russia in some way, but public opinion on direct intervention is far more mixed. They're largely sympathetic towards Ukraine but remain pragmatic on going to war. I'd like to see the USA do more, but I think that Biden is basically expressing the wishes of the majority of American people right now. Sanctions and weapons, but no war.
I'm just replying to your last sentence here, can't figure out how to selectively quote..
But really?..I don't know..I think this changes the world..Not necessarily the Russian invasion, but the west's reaction to it..
In 10 years time Russia will have opened its other markets to its energy exports..They're selling oil to India in Remnibi..They'll do the same with the Chinese..The Saudis are talking about selling oil in yuan..This could mean the end of the petrol dollar..And a Europe with astronomical energy costs trying to compete with an Asia with acces to cheap energy contracts..
Does any foreign money seem secure in western banks now?..
What's coming out of the Russian does seem to be Dugin multi polar world inspired..
We'll see what happens..In retrospect pushing Ukraine towards nato might be viewed as a mistake I think..
They are talking about selling in Yuan...but they won't go all in as the Chinese would need to give up full control of its currency.
@Bayonet Agreed with some of this, but the fact remains Syria was handed to Russia,
Russia controls very little in Syria bar a port and airfield ,the Assad regime only controls 24% of the whole country ,the Kurds and others control more of Syria than assputin regime ,and add the near daily bombing raids by Israel and the Turkish involvement .
Russia hasn't been handed anything , what will be interesting after this is settled and done in Ukraine ,will ukraine send the Kurdish forces care packages of anti tank/ anti Aircraft weapons as a gesture of pay back
So basically your idea is ...
"I want to still get my cheapish new gadgets and cheap clothes so fook it lets keep building up China's economy so that we are held hostage to it down the road if they chose to go into Taiwan or start kicking people out of the South China Sea".
Samsung manufacture in Vietnam, there are clothes companies based in Cambodia.
I still don't agree with effectively using almost slave labour, but at least all the eggs are not being put in the one massive basket.
And the basket that is diametrically opposed to a lot of our ideas on liberal and democratic societies.
BTW you do know that electronic devices used to be built in the US, even here in Ireland shock horror, in Poland, Germany, Italy, hell even the old UK.
It is about time consumers in the West wised up that a TV shouldn't cost a couple of hundred euro, a computer a couple of weeks wages, a new shirt a few quid.
And as a few environmentalists might point out it would actually help the world in the longer term.
I bet you are a huge fan of globalisation, after all it brings you never ending electronic devices, cheap clothes, etc, etc.
Maybe if you worked in one of the old world industries like manufacturing you mightn't be such a fan as you watched your job move to China or India.
Globalisation is another word for selling out your own in the West, building the economies of the enemies of the West and making multi national owners mega rich.
I think the Germans were unique in their resolve or maybe that should be stupidity.
And there is evidence in 1943 that after the leveling of Hamburg that ordinary Germans were not happy at all.
It was far more devastating than the loss in Stalingrad, being driven out of North Africa or the invasion of Sicily.
There was growing distrust of official propaganda, evacuations lowered morale, but yes it was mainly those that were affected.
To most Germans there was a realisation they were no longer untouchable, but rather than concentrating on the same cities the Allies should have spread around the bombing to cause more widespread lowering of morale.
The destruction of Hamburg took it out of the war like the destruction of cities in The Ruhr had big effects on the likes of steel production.
The thing the Nazi's had were the secret police, the control, the snitches that turned in people to the Gestapo for the slightest thing.
Anyone that stood up against the Nazi narrative like The White Rose's Stoll siblings met a sticky end.
Feckin boards, says this is a reply to me but all I see is a blank post.....weird.
No, I was dead against all the foreign wars - although I thought Afghanistan was legitimate. I'd be an America first sort, but also realise than if the US doesn't use its power, China & Russia will. I think Trump did well on foreign policy. I think he walked that line of intervention and non-intervention well. I think he was focussed on using America's economic might to reduce the influence of China and Russia, which is why he was infuriated with EU buying oil & gas from Russia and Nord Stream 2.
I have to say I'm disappointed with the America first people like Jack Posobiec and that lot. They seem to have taken it to mean being contrarians.
Russia controls the skies in Syria.
Lol, someone else harbouring fever-dreams of a 'petro-yuan' displacing the dollar.
Keep dreaming. I'm not even going to get into the sow pen talking about this with you.
If you had the foggiest about how the Chinese economy is structured, how they manipulate their currency, their capital controls etc - never mind getting into the security implications for Saudi if they even went there (and they won't because it's fantasty land), you'd start beating yourself over the head with a George Soros shaped mallet for thinking dumb dumb thoughts.
Stick to your lane: saucer people. You may not be good at that either but at least it's your thing.
Opening myself to suggestions of chauvinism or w/e but I was watching a random video the other day and for some reason there was a drawing of Hawaii a few hundred years ago with the natives surfing. Yeah, I got a pang of "Wow, they literally could just eat, sleep and surf all day". It's a silly discussion in a lot of ways but yeah, had to be nice sometimes :P
I'd be bringing them into the EU. Fúck Russia. Until it majorly changes its mindset anyway. Sure they can sell their energy to China and the like but at knockdown prices. As I said their remaining reserves are further north under the ground and that;ll cost money and expertise they don't have. leverage away from China, but keep them sweet. They'll be happy enough with that too. We're not Americans so that helps there and they need the business. Keep America sweet too, but avoid getting dragged into their misadventures and that includes aspects of NATO too. The Saudis may sell some oil in yuan, but they know it's more for optics as the currency's worth is internal and controlled by China. The same China whose biggest asset bubble in history hasn't gone away just because we're looking to Ukraine now. China's demographics are another problem. IMHO if any currency is in line for threatening the petrodollar it's the euro. The EU is the third largest economy on the planet, just behind China(and they need four times the population to do it) and is freer than China and has far more social and economic equality than the US.
As with yourself in this post I'm just replying to your last line. Yes, Russia pushing Ukraine towards NATO I'm pretty sure is seen by everyone as a mistake.
If you could avoid the lads calling for human sacrifice it was probably a grand spot. 😀
No they don't ,
Other Wise Israel wouldn't bombing Syrian and Iranians every other night ,
But thats a another thread which has been discussed in depth
The decisions on the sanctions is not in the gift of the Ukr anians
Threadbanned
We should remove the sanctions, then when they move out, reimpose them and say we never said agreed to remove them. Give them a taste of their own medicine.
No, but they wont be asking the Ukrainians to drop the sanctions - but the West. That's the despicable thing about it - would be effectively holding a whole country hostage.
Actually, hang on this is going to take too long.....
I had completely forgotten about Navalny. He's getting sentenced tomorrow.
No confirmation yet:-
It would come down to profits really. If they profited a lot in Russia, they'd go back in I reckon.
Fortunately for Nestlé, and unfortunately for the world, their total business is a tiny bit more than chocolate eggs.
Hooks in everything.
6 months down the line with a completely different news cycle or American midterms, no one will care.
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