I'd take issue with anything Clarke says. He was demoted from his NATO post after the Pristina airport incident.
That would be great if it came to pass.
Now, I think the Russians may hold Ukraine hostage and demand the call off of sanctions from the rest of the world before they leave Ukraine - it'll be despicable, but they might just do it - it's not like they care what the West thinks of Russia.
This is bleak, completely indiscriminate. The gunfire didn't stop once and judging by the fact that what I'd assume to be a grenade thrown into the crowd means these aren't warning shots.
Still unclear if anyone was actually killed here, it may have been mainly shots into the air and tear gas. It does show that tensions are rising though....it may be only a matter of time before we see a very serious 'incident' with multiple fatalities.
"Prime Minister Naftali Bennett stated that the Russians are no longer demanding the removal of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky nor the complete demilitarization of Ukraine, adding that there is "still a long way to go" in mediating between Russia and Ukraine, at Ynet's "People of the State" conference on Monday"
This has already come to pass - the US spent an eye watering amount of money trying to modernise Afghanistan - the $ toll to police the world isn't cheap - and it was pretty much all reversed in weeks. The world already knows the US cannot afford to police the world.
Every war NATO and the US in particular wage it becomes economically weaker and China gets stronger in relative terms.
Now, that's not the reason I hope NATO (individual local countrie okay) intervenes in Ukraine. That's for different reasons - money wont be the issue there as we're talking about a potential existential event.
Think it was already posted on thread but didn't spot it.
The massacre has barely started yet.
On the topic of Russian comms - we've heard that their secure comms were not working or malfunctioning, and that the Ukrainians were jamming the single-channel backup comms, which forced some Russians to go to cellphones but the Ukrainians blocked the Russian prefix, and that led on to Russian soldiers using stolen Ukrainian cellphones...
This makes me wonder how much working power is left in the country because cellular towers are not impervious to power outages, so if the Russians continue to destroy Ukrainian infrastructure, they could end up inadvertently knocking out the only reliable communication method they have, unless they get their proper comms sorted.
So just seen one military transport, 2 planes and 3 helicopters flying overhead going west here in Dublin.
It was something I was thinking about this morning. I think here in the West, we expect Russians to be questioning why Western media and social media has been suppressed in Russia, and that the inevitable conclusion that they will come to is that their government is hiding something from them. Carrying on from that, when stories filter through from the families of soldiers you would think that they would definitely know that the government is lying.
But then we banned the russian news networks. Now, obviously I know it's because they are pure propaganda, but isn't that what every Russian thinks about the Western news networks and social media? It'd be easy to paint a picture to say that the West is desperate to sow discord in Russia, and will mock up news reports and plant content creators on instagram solely to lie to the Russians. And Russia is massive, even 40,000 soldiers dying will only mean sporadic stories amongst a massive population. Easy to disregard as conspiracy theorists.
I think it'll be a long time before ordinary russian accept what is truely happening in the Ukraine.
The absolute refusal of western powers to send in troops to assist Ukraine will come back to haunt them in my opinion. The longer this goes on, the more brutal Putin will get, and it would not surprise me if we do see a chemical attack at some point.
If that point comes, and NATO or other independent countries with military capabilities refuse to enter into this, then ideals that western countries base themselves on, will come crashing down around them.
Einstein said that in 1953 - when nuclear MAD was not... assured, this only came later when ICBM subs ensured neither Russia or the USA could have their retaliation strike ruled out. So, we don't live in the same World as Albert was talking about.
I have no doubt Putin has got a shock, how could he not? Would he be emboldened to take Moldova - possibly, would he resort to Nuclear strikes if attacked by NATO, I'd say a good chance of it. Whether he strikes a Nato country with nuclear weapons is less likely. But, it cannot be ruled out - if Putin fires even a small tactical nuke into Ukraine, will NATO launch a preemptive strike, hoping they have all Russian subs etc taken out (you'll notice they seem to be trying to monitor them). They'd also need to carpet bomb Russia to take out mobile nuclear weapons. Can you honestly say this scenario is craven Chicken Little thinking?
I think it less likely for Russia to hobble to victory in Ukraine and decide on world domination than a nuclear conflict happening if NATO get involved. You have it the other way around - fine. You call that cowardice - fine, I'll still be on the side of mitigating the risk to 8 billion people. And I don't buy into the argument, 'if there's nuclear war so be it, it'll be what humanity deserves' - I don't think it was you that said this, but it was expressed in this thread by those advocating a NATO intervention.
If Poland, and other non nuclear countries enter Ukraine, that's less of a risk (but not entirely removed) and I'd wish them well.
We know that Hitler (I don't think you'd disagree with this) would have used nuclear weapons if he had the capability*. Are you risking Putin is not that psycho - that's a risk not worth taking imo.
*someone answered that Hitler wouldn't have had the loyalty even if he had the weapons. That's irrelevant (possibly not even true), he would have used them if he could.
How long will world stand by and watch these atrocities ?
He said they could, not should, and he's right.
How many Russians know about the Holodomor? Just using that example because it should be the easiest for a lot to know about in this context. How many of those who have heard of it have any clue of the scale and how of how deliberate it was? Because it really seems like Russians only react to bad things with a shrug.
We're already into a Bloody Sunday type scenario then and a blatant war crime. This will go down very badly in all the western countries.....opening fire on innocent civilians is a big 'no no'.
Looks to be true unfortunately. MilitaryLand dot net have vids which I'd rather not post. What a way to win Hearts and Minds.
Russian soldiers opened fire on protesters in Kherson
I fear the plucky memes of tanks being dragged away by tractors and grannies making Molotov cocktails will be overshadowed by what is ongoing and what is coming.
The Russians have already lost the propaganda war. There is virtually nothing the Ukrainians could do to make public opinion switch to "there are two sides to this argument" or "they are nearly as bad as the Russians". They were a neutral and peaceful country and violently attacked and invaded by a country that is three times bigger.
There's videos doing the rounds of Russian military buses passing into Belarus supposedly Carrying dead soldiers 10 or 20 buses at a time and usually only seen late at night,
We know senior officers are being confirmed killed but no acknowledgment of the soldiers fighting along side them
And IMO so they should be winning the propaganda war, they are the ones who have been invaded for no justification at all, and are seeing the horror of their homes, hospitals, ect being bombed out of it, killing countless civilians.
But my worry is that this is going to take its toll on the population of Ukraine, maybe within the military or civilains. And their will be some who will only want revenge for whats happening, unfortunately it may lead to revenge atrocities committed from the Ukraine side.
Anything that does happen will be played down by the Ukrainian side but more than likely be used by the Russians as proof for why they needed to invade in the first place. (Which of course would be ludicrous, but I think its what we may see as things pan out)
Yes chemical attack is a big no no. The west will give them some time(not too much) to respond and if there is no clear evidence to the contrary then they will have to move.
With regards to the tweet above does anybody know if that was a live grenade or was it a stun grenade.
I am in no way anti-russian. Right now their government, military and public are digging a big f@@king hole for themselves.
Similar to Irish/English close ties etc? Or the fact that English people currently live in a free society where they could educate themselves?
Again you're giving humanity too much credit. Countries write their own history and we, the sheepish masses tend to swallow it whole and move on.
That's even more the case in a highly sensored, authoritarian state like Russia. So I won't be holding my breath for the average Russian to realise they're the bad guys.
That 15,000 troops figure would surely be the far end of the scale I've seen so far and something I'd take with a fair pinch of salt. That said, reading between the lines of the various estimates out there, the picture is undoubtedly that this is a pretty costly war vs. what casualties modern militaries would be used to taking in 3 weeks.
We get that you are not supportive of the Polish Government. There is no need to repeatedly say that throughout the thread. The thread is about Russia and in particular it's attack on Ukraine, not a soapbox for anti Polish government sentiment
Reported Russian losses ,if true definitely some of the worse losses of any (supposedly)modern army in recent times
I wouldn't disagree with NATO or a joint EU force going into Ukraine on the basis of civilians being shot, but they're probably not going to. However, if the Russians decide to start using sarin gas or some other toxic agent, I think public pressure for western militaries to act decisively may become too much to bear.
The above gives us an idea of what a chemical attack entails. Do not read if of a sensitive nature.
Yes, I don't think it has even the dawned on them the scale of what their criminal regime has inflicted on their next door neighbour - they have gone so far down the rabbit hole of state propaganda, lies and brainwashing that they think it's just some tactical manoeuvre to secure Russia's ongoing defence.
I do think think though Ukraine will emerge victorious and the new Ukraine will be an even better version of what went before. Think of all the goodwill from around the world towards them and the countries that want to help them. It's good to hear too that the EU and others are planning on seizing the foreign assets of the Russian criminal regime to pay for the rebuilding of Ukraine.
They are at least Team players and don't endanger the situation with their reckless actions....
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