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Child Item

Humiliated at meeting

Midlands Minnie

I apologise for the long post but trying to put everything in context. 2 videos of me via CCTV in a meeting room of managers

I am a 53 year old woman who works for just above minimum wage in a company which deals with the public. I am shy, reserved, friendly, have manners and will do whatever is asked of me. I also suffer with depression and anxiety which my company knows about. I work alone and love dealing with my customers and enjoying the banter with regulars. Just after Christmas (after working a 50h week as half the staff had covid) I found something very disgusting in downstairs corridor, right under the camera so you couldn't see who did it, and I asked a colleague to verify what I thought it was and she agreed with me. She told the cleaner who cleaned it up but was not too happy about doing it. I reported it to the supervisor who refused to come down and look.

Fast forward and the general manager is absolutely fuming about this and wants the person responsible to face serious consequences so meetings were arranged. My first meeting was to go over my statement but I brought a colleague in with me as I am not good with dealing authority. They went over everything and I thought that was it. A week later I was called into another disciplinary meeting to "go over cctv" I didn't think I needed anyone with me as I thought it was just to confirm my statement with the visual images. The atmosphere when I entered the meeting was tense and I was shown 2 videos. 1st video was of me going up steep steps to where I work and I was out of breath as I am quite unfit, i.e wheezing. They left the camera running in real time with the volume up so we could all hear me trying to catch my breath for about 2 minutes, I was absolutely mortified as this had nothing to do with what I found. The 2nd video was of me walking down the corridor to the toilet an then a change of camera to view me going into the toilet. Again this was left in real time for about 2-3 minutes and again my mortification rose even further being in a silent room with everyone watching a door for me to come out of.. I was so embarrassed my face was purple and I was on the verge of tears. I came our of the toilet and then they stopped the video. Then my manager said that they had a problem, there were only 3 people who saw the offending item, me who found it, my colleague and the cleaning lady and there the problem lay. So with all eyes on me the insinuation was that I did it. Cue 3rd round of absolute mortification that they thought I could do something so disgusting at my age.

I went home in tears and had the biggest anxiety attack in years. My husband who is a union rep was absolutely furious and my friends appalled. Everyone knows who did it but with no video image they cant do anything. I am so upset over this that I wanted to leave but I like what I do but not the company and at my age its very difficult to find office work in my area. But I am now angry so am looking for some feedback as to what to do next. Should I make an official complaint? Take it further? I dont know but I want them to know that this was very badly handled and has really affected me personally. I am not the same person after it as my depression/anxiety have risen significantly still now after nearly 2 months. My colleagues have noticed a change in me as well and are also appalled at what happened. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

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[Deleted User]

I would only formally complain if there was an outcome I wanted to pursue. For example, if you wanted the managers involved to be disciplined by someone higher up, or if you wanted to be moved to a different team, etc.

If you don't want a specific outcome, I would complain informally, directly to the main person involved, and let them know how it's affected you and your work.

You found yourself, without warning, dropped into an intimidating situation where you felt humiliated. This is worth communicating to your managers because they may not have known/realised/cared how they made you feel.

Whether you decide to complain formally or informally, you need to say something to someone at manager level or above, because this is clearly going to eat at you over time if you don't.

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058237886/humiliated-at-meeting

Screw it, its a minimum wage job, go at them full tilt and ask blatantly for a full and unoquivical apology and if not forthcoming let them know you are looking into a defamation of character action. Give them grief, and let them know their disgusting behaviour will not be tolerated.

[Deleted User]

Sorry for asking, but was it a poo that you found? I can't for the life of me think that I could be anything else.

I'd absolutely be taking this further. As said, its a barely above minimum wage job so really you have nothing to lose. You shouldn't be made feel like this and you should stand up for yourself.

Best of luck op.

[Deleted User]

Judging by what you described your personality I would seek legal advice. They may not have a case to take but they'll be at least able to provide you with a direct course of action that you can confidently do, hopefully avoiding further confrontation. If they do have a case then you now have someone who is competent at these things speaking on your behalf, relieving you of that stress at least.

[Deleted User]

What's the chances that they aren't complying with any of their legal obligations about CCTV?

https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/dpc-guidance/guidance-on-the-use-of-cctv

You could tie them up in knots for months on this. Are you a union member yourself?

daheff

Did they prewarn you that the second meeting was a disciplinary meeting?

Pretty sure they must do this.

Midlands Minnie

Hi everyone, I just want to say thank you for your helpful replies to what was a very distressing event for me. I hope I have answered all your queries below.

Yes it was a poo I found, right in the middle of the corridor, it was a small one but a poo nonetheless.

The meetings were described as disciplinary but I am so naïve, I thought it was to discipline at the end the person who did it. Not me directly. It never even dawned on me that I was a suspect as I have never, in all my working life (nearly 40 years) been involved in any meetings like this.

I have decided to take a break for a couple of months with my dr's advice. I am going to do meditation and CBT classes to control my stress and a few other things to keep my mind busy. The place is toxic, everyone bitches about everyone and management just want to screw us over but I will be meeting with my manager next week to give in my note. I will be talking to her about what happened and how it was handled. I do want an apology but in all honestly they dont care and I doubt very much I will get it.

I am going to stand up for myself when I talk to her. I was so blindsided when it happened I didn't know what to say. It is a minimum wage job but its 10 mins from home, I work on my own, I like my job and my customers but not everything else.

I never thought of defamation of character. But they never actually said the words "we are accusing you of this" it was just insinuated by the "we have a problem" comments.

I was thinking of legal advice and I still might. But I dont want to lose my job because I like it, but its a path I may take.

Unions are not allowed as even if we did join, they said they would refuse to engage and this is why they treat us like **** (pun intended) Some of the old timers here dont want to rock the boat as they get all the best and well paid shifts, so they wouldn't join anyway, In saying that there are an awful lot of unhappy people here as well. Regarding the CCTV footage, we all are under constant footage as we deal with large amounts of cash and also if there are disagreements, missing money, rude customers or complaints. This way they can look over and see and listen to what went on. its horrible.

Thanks again, this was really helpful. x

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812110#Comment_118812110

Do they have published policies for their CCTV usage?

Strumms

Next time you happen across anything that is not in its place, just ignore it. Go in, do your work on time, leave on time….

you tried to do the responsible thing and they burned you for it.

Akrasia

Take your time, you're not much worse off on sick leave. Don't feel pressured to come back to work.

You'll probably never go back there but leave when you're ready and have something to move on to

If they try to fire you or screw you over in any way you have a strong constructive dismissal case but that's only really a last resort imo

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804887#Comment_118804887

No. It is important to have some kind of record. Especially if it is a big company with a dedicated HR. Put your complaint some sort of writing. Even if nothing comes of it or you don't want anything to come of it now. You will have a record of it.

Midlands Minnie

I actually don't know about this, as I've never heard of it but l will check. Thanks

[Deleted User]

If I’m reading this correctly, the op complained that a colleague took a dump, on the floor in a hallway, in a building which seems to have a lot of CCTV. Is anyone surprised that both the complaint, and the complainant is being looked into? The probability of someone taking a dump on a carpet, and not be seen must be outlandishly low.

Op, were you told that the disciplinary meeting was related to you? I ask because as part of any disciplinary process the employer is required to take careful notes about the allegation, and to investigate thoroughly. So a simple question, were you specifically told that you were the subject of the disciplinary meeting, or are you just speculating that you are?

Just to be aware, any disciplinary action against the person who did it would involve details of the allegation being made, details of investigation that was carried out, and the person being disciplined will have the right to challenge both.

Midlands Minnie

The camera looks up and down the corridor but not directly underneath it so the person who did it knew this.

I was told it was a disciplinary meeting but nothing was said that it was about me being investigated. Here was my naivity l think as l thought it was to discipline the culprit at the end.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811352#Comment_118811352

Except when you are 53 and you enjoyed that job, it is not that simple.... and as for defamation.... no not a chance.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812813#Comment_118812813

You are a significant part of the investigation, as you are the one who complained, of course you form a large part of the disciplinary process.

Minnie, have you been informed that it is you that was the subject of the disciplinary meeting? If not, then you are just part of the investigation, which would be expected.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812110#Comment_118812110

While I understand your feels, as I am older than you.... I can't help but wonder if all we have here is your interpretations of a situation rather than anything of substance. Your company seems to have a very formal procedure for dealing with things, so if you were in fact the target of the investigation I'd have expected you'd be made aware of that. Are you sure it is not a case of a poor show by a younger less sensitive member of staff, rather than anything intentional.

My approach would be to go to the doctor, get a sick note and take the time to recover. And then when you are in a better place decide how you want to deal with the situation.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812648#Comment_118812648

I share Dav10's misgivings.

But maybe someone planted some dog-**** there, because they knew the OP would find it, and wanted to harass them.

OP do you think you know who did it (either produced the item or put it there)? Is there a colleague who would do that to you?

Midlands Minnie

I didn't mind at all being part of the investigation but l was never told that l was a suspect. Also the 2 videos are the point here, there was no need to show me being out of breath at in real time with the volume up as this had no part in what l found and also the video of me going to the toilet in real time as well. It was humiliating to watch both with other people in the room, HR included.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813100#Comment_118813100

Minnie, the complaint has to be investigated before any disciplinary procedure can commence.

Again, have you been informed that you were the subject of that disciplinary meeting? Without you being informed, I see this as nothing more than the investigatory process, which the person who may be the subject of the DP will be entitled to.

So please, have you been informed that you were/are the subject of a disciplinary procedure?

granturismo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812210#Comment_118812210

Write a letter as advised above, the notes from your disciplinary meeting will be held in your HR file. You should write a letter emphasising how you felt at that meeting, this letter should also be kept on your HR file.

[Deleted User]

In your OP you wrote the following: Everyone knows who did it but with no video image they cant do anything.

But if that statement is correct, then why would management have hauled you over the coals?

Midlands Minnie

Because he has a contract and l don't. And even oif we all know it was him, there is no proof, it's just gossip.

Midlands Minnie

I was not made aware that l was a suspect. I don't know how much more l can tell you

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813242#Comment_118813242

But if they "all know" that is was him, then there isn't any justification whatsoever for having summoned you to not one but two disciplinary hearings. 😕

It just doesn't make sense.

Midlands Minnie

Again this was just gossip as he is well known for destroying toilets when he has to go

mcgragger

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/contact_us/contact-details/

Contact the WRC for free and accurate advice.

They are the place that all employers fear more than most

[Deleted User]

What is this thread about?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813129#Comment_118813129

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813271#Comment_118813271

That’s the thing, it wasn’t her disciplinary meeting. For a disciplinary procedure to have occurred, the op would have had to have been told in advance, the allegation set out, what investigations were carried out etc. The op has not been told that she was the subject of any disciplinary process, it sounds more like an investigatory meeting and the op is unhappy that she is shown out of breathe on the stairs.

I’m struggling to see what the employer would fear here, they are legally required to investigate as part of any DP, and ironically, would have more to fear from the WRC if they didn’t.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813100#Comment_118813100

So all you really got is that you attended a few meetings as a witness as part of the the companies investigation and you did not like the way you were treated. You were not accused of anything, you were not the subject of the investigation, you were not disciplined, it is all just your impression...

You need to figure out what outcome you want before you go anything further, because I fear you will end up talking yourself out of the job you are not careful and that may not be the outcome you want.