Well NATO and the EU werent pumping in weapons and sanctions there either so there is already a different standard applied.
Who wouldn't? NATO?
Much like the fighter pilot that must have weighted at least 17 stone that was shot down weeks ago in Ukraine ,no idea where they are finding these lads from they definitely don't look like professional soldiers
Okay, so I guess I have to ask this but hypothetically if Ireland was in NATO....you'd be cool with your Irish family members fighting in Ukraine against Russia? quite the mental gymnastics needed to justify Irish men be killed for Ukraine.
This would be fine in theory if there were no sanctions and Russia wasn't even more of a pariah state than North Korea. It's hard to see how Putin could stretch the war in Ukraine out to two years without his own regime collapsing in the meantime.
I wouldn't agree either that a new administration in the US would be better disposed towards Russia. What has become clear since the invasion started is that even most Americans now view the 'regime' as a major threat to their safety and security (far right Putin loving cranks like Tucker Carlson and some members of the Republican Party are very much in the minority on this).
I fully expect that to be the case.
Wasn't it reported that the Russians were offering "rewards" for US personnel being killed in Afghanistan? They might be regretting that now. It's payback time...
Another example of Russian delusion. They think their country of less than (falling fast) 140 million is the same league as the USA, EU and a plethora of other countries. Lavrov sounds like he’s still fighting the last Cold War under Breshnev
Absolutely, there is clear support from the west. And NATO has more intelligence than we have here.
NATO Command don't think it's safe to intervene I'm happy to go with their assessment. If they change their mind I'd be more comfortable with them putting boots on the ground.
Bunblypop... your comment ended up here. Can't delete... to answer -any boards.ie recruits.
Irish troops play a huge part in the Balkans since NATO intervention.
Thie investigative reporter added:
This should NOT necessarily be perceived as an escalation in Ukraine.
Small JSOC teams routinely penetrate foreign countries to do covert work (not fighting) as part of long-shot contingency planning.
These are denied operations under Title 10, no different from CIA activities.
Sorry, didn't realise we were dealing with a military guru here. Best get back to "assessing" the situation rather than spending your time talking to the infantial simple folk on boards.
'Cool with' ? Would Poles be cool with it? Or realise it is necessary.
I havent said anything about Ireland joining NATO (or even urged NATO to intervene directly now) - Thats an entirely different debate.
I think it is reasonable for people in Ireland to discuss NATO's best course of action which may involve direct intervention. I think NATO should have considered boots on the ground before Russia invaded... something along the lines of what was done in Georgia.
My main point is that NATO intervening here would be because it is a conflict on their borders and the need to stabilise the region. It is a different precedence to a humanitarian intervention mission in a global setting although that could form part of the rationale.
Think what you like. I've already told you I've no problem signing up if required. I've also told you that I'm willing to take the risk of it escalating to a level no one wants in order to end the senseless death of women and children. You on the other hand would watch a million kids die just so long as you can hide behind your PC and "maturely assess" the war.
Question. Do you have any military experience or NGO experience, particularly abroad, in crisis area's?
I'm saying it's easier for the Irish to be more cavalier about NATO involvement when it's not the Irish who will have to fight.
1. Not sure what the relevance this has. This is the reason the US and Russia haven't fought directly in a meaningful way.
2. Russia have functioning nukes. Likely not as much as they claim, but more than enough.
3. In the heat of the moment that might not be enough.
4 . The US and Russia have only fought against each other during the Korean war, and that was only in the air. And it was the late 1940s/ early 1950s when MAD wasn't anywhere like today.
5. That's the gamble - again, I've asked several times and no answer. Would Hitler have used nukes when he was at the end? We know the answer It's yes. Are you betting Putin isn't so inclined?
6. How much faith do you put in Putins concern for what the Russian people think or if he couldn't convince them it was justified. I wouldn't.
This comes from a poster that supports Russia 100%.
Dont know how I came upon it, but its a whole other outlook on the other side.
Interesting if that's what you want to call it.
Total polar opposite views to ours.
I'm clueless when it comes to military/weapons.
Would this tie in with what we're hearing about Germany not helping with the armament of Ukraine?
Or is it that older/less advanced weapons are what Ukraine soldiers are trained to fight with. I.e when Thare was talk about the fighter jets.
Or is it what it says on the box, just pure propaganda.
You do realise that no nato ground troops need to be committed. The Ukrainians are more than capable of taking care of themselves if they had air support and missile support from the west. Base it in west Ukraine and use satellite info to target units shelling the cities. So no need to fantasise about 30,000 Americans, poles and brits marching over the border. Its not the way it would go down.
Sure thats a very valid point.
Against that, the countries who seem most keen on more NATO involvement are those ex Soviet NATO members bordering Ukraine or Russian territories who would be on the 'new' frontline.
Air support means shooting Russians. Now, sending planes to Ukraine and let Ukrainian pilots do the business....I'd probably support that.
No. Relevance?
On the other hand you are risking the death of billions of women and children.
Yes, shooting Russians who invaded a sovereign peaceful country. So you don't support sending a few patriots into west Ukraine and targeting sites shelling civilians. Because that's quite odd and hypocritical if you don't.
Russia and the US and The UK have been fighting each other for decades. ( I suspect you were born post 1980's), and in many cases, directly. For those of us who lived through the Cold War, a lecture on Nuclear Weapons and radioactivity is a moot one. Many of us still have iodine tablets knocking around the house.
If you catch up on late WW2 history, you will realise that, if the German's managed to create a bomb, there is zero chance that one would have been launched because, at the late stages of the war, he had zero support from his staff and officers.
I didn't say they wouldn't, millions could still die in the process though, maybe most would be Russian but they are still humans too.
The possible extinction of the human race is not spiel.
If those patriots are manned by US personnel, then it's America shooting Russians. Again, I keep trying to get folk to realise that NATO/US shooting Russians will lead us down a bad road. Besides, nothing will unite and galvanise both the Russian home front and military, than NATO/American direct involvement.
It's relevant to me. Thank you.
I agree. But it’s not about what we think, it’s about what he thinks
sanctions are already positioned with the population as a western attack, that must be resisted. That’s it’s just a form of warfare. And he’s told the population that things will get much worse economically, because of the west’s economic attacks
You do realise that there's nothing stopping us sending Irish troops in to help defend Ukraine and drive the Russians back over their border. We are not members of any military alliance as people are fond of repeating, so we are free agents are we not? Sometimes the right thing should be done.
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