Russia - threadbanned users in OP

JoChervil · 20-03-2022 03:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809490#Comment_118809490

The rest was sent immediately to Grozny. Maybe to save them? I think we don't know what is going on in Russia behind the scenes. Maybe Putin was mislead intentionally and now is trying to stay in power?

I wonder why so many high ranked people were killed. Were they Putin's or Bortnikov's supporters. The latter one might be much worse choice than Putin eventually. He was responsible for Navalny's poisoning....

threeball · 20-03-2022 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809334#Comment_118809334

For a start, any intervention now does not involve western boots on the ground. Air intervention as well as missile is enough to turn the tide in Ukraines favour.

But if it does escalate and its required I have no problem enlisting and fighting for what I believe is right.

Field east · 20-03-2022 03:28PM

And final add and sweeten look on?

Field east · 20-03-2022 03:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809155#Comment_118809155

And Finland and Sweden stand idly by?

20-03-2022 03:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809472#Comment_118809472

But NATO aggression in Ukraine will be blamed for the change in script. I’m only relaying what I’m hearing from my friends in Moscow

Putin will spin this however he likes and people will buy it

thomil · 20-03-2022 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809486#Comment_118809486

Hold up!

That verse dates back to 1841 and has nothing to do with the Nazis.It was originally written as an anthem for German unification. The Phrase "Deutschland über Alles" - Germany above everything, was meant to enshrine the place of a united Germany over the dozens of small kingdoms, duchies and principalities that made up what is now Germany prior to 1871. Similarly, the geographical boundaries mentioned reflect the borders of either the German Zollverein (Customs Union), as well as the German Confederation, a loose association of German states that was hoped by many advocates of German unification to eventually merge into a single state.

It was heavily utilised by nationalist elements during both World war 1 and the Weimar Republic and of course instrumentalised by the Nazis, which is why the first two verses, including the one you quoted there, are no longer part of the German national Anthem. Whilst it isn't strictly illegal to sing the first two verses, the first one in particular is so toxic that even neofascist parties like the AfD won't touch it in Germany.

Just thought I'd add a bit of context here.

pcardin · 20-03-2022 03:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809568#Comment_118809568

Finland will fight. Sweden will sell us all out. They have a long history on siding evil.

threeball · 20-03-2022 03:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809579#Comment_118809579

They buy it anyway. Bunch of sheep.

Did you see the interview with the Ukrainian the other day who confronted a Russian soldier and was told that "Putin is a king, putin is a god" and this came from someone who is living through the battle in Ukraine. Not just some brain washed citizen out for a walk in Red Square

storker · 20-03-2022 04:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809242#Comment_118809242

If word of this plot is appearing in the press in India, then the conspirators and their plot are already screwed.

threeball · 20-03-2022 04:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809721#Comment_118809721

It's far more likely that Putin wants rid of him so has got the word out and will have him arrested for treason. Either because he's displeased by the info he got before the invasion or he sees him as threat.

RGARDINR · 20-03-2022 04:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809721#Comment_118809721

To be fair the problem Ois even if Putin is removed you still will have the same rich bunch of people picking the next leader. They need to be removed as well as putin. No point having him gone and all the oligarchs still there at the top of the ladder picking and choosing who is in charge and lining their pockets. They are as bad as Putin and I still see them in the top levels of power when putin goes whenever that is.

liamtech · 20-03-2022 04:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809622#Comment_118809622

Point taken for sure

The Russian song is far more toxic though IMHO - very sinister

brickster69 · 20-03-2022 04:23PM

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1505540257252622337

myfreespirit · 20-03-2022 04:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809180#Comment_118809180

This military analysis isn't so confident about NATO's ability to defend the three Baltic States:

https://www.militairespectator.nl/thema/strategie-operaties/artikel/suwalki-gap-dilemma

In summary, the analysis seems to show that the Russians could easily cut off and occupy Estonia Latvia and Lithuania before NATO forces even got mobilised.

Extract from the article:

"At the most, it would take between 36 and 60 hours for the Russian forces to reach the Estonian and Latvian capitals, Tallinn and Riga, on the Baltic coast. ‘Such a rapid defeat would leave NATO with a limited number of options, all bad: a bloody counteroffensive, fraught with escalatory risk, to liberate the Baltics; to escalate itself, as it threatened to do to avert defeat during the Cold War; or to concede at least temporary defeat, with uncertain but predictably disastrous consequences for the Alliance and, not incidentally, the people of the Baltics."

20-03-2022 04:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809866#Comment_118809866

Check the date of the article. That's the first and only thing I read. Anything about Russian ability needs to be reassessed, and not in Russia's favour.

goldenmick · 20-03-2022 04:40PM

@myfreespirit - the analysis seems to show that the Russians could easily cut off and occupy Estonia Latvia and Lithuania before NATO forces even got mobilised.

With a top speed exceeding 2,000 mph, fighter jets would be on the scene way before it got to that stage.

myfreespirit · 20-03-2022 04:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809893#Comment_118809893

Agreed, the analysis by the Rand Corporation is around 9 years old.

However, I'm not sure much has changed in NATO strategy and outlook in the meantime. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014, I'm not aware of substantial NATO developments since then that negate what the analysis says?

20-03-2022 04:46PM

Yeah I'll take it with a lorry of salt. Every move would be telegraphed and droned to bits.

20-03-2022 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809866#Comment_118809866

I'd love to see more up to date analysis now that we've got actual evidence of how the Russian forces perform.... or rather don't perform, during an invasion

joseywhales · 20-03-2022 04:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809452#Comment_118809452

Having not read everything they said, there is a little validity to the argument I think they are trying to make. There is always going to be a bias in forums like this, whereby we all advocate for action. We risk very little. I think it's an easy position for us to take, to be self righteous. The default position will be to denounce the invaders and demand action naturally but we are asking to open up a war that could cost millions of lives and I guess this guy is just asking, are we the ones who are willing to die? After all you wouldn't ask anyone to do something that you are not willing to do yourself. The thread can even get a little xenophobic at times as if all people Russian and ukranian aren't victims of a totalitarian regime. It's a folly we have always gotten caught up in, ordinary people suffer and sometimes even support the agenda of despots and dictators, through manipulation or just having the wrong identity when it's in none of their interests.

BorneTobyWilde · 20-03-2022 04:53PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jtKS91OHlo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6VGw7YiHdQ

She went from dismissing the invasion as just fear mongering to fleeing in the space of just two weeks

XsApollo · 20-03-2022 04:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809866#Comment_118809866

That article was written in 2020, whatever Notions anybody in Russia had or the US or Europe had about what Awakening the sleeping bear might bring has been shown to be a fantasy.

the Russian military going on the showing of invading Ukraine wouldn’t stand a chance.

they have big bombs and that’s about it.

briany · 20-03-2022 05:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809808#Comment_118809808

I'm not sure that Zelenskyy is in a position to unilaterally proclaim a 3rd world war if something does not take place, although I can certainly understand him attempting to raise the stakes of talks in order to reach a halfway mutually agreeable settlement.

I don't think Putin is much interested in talking, anyway. So long as Russia can run their war, the plan appears to be nothing less than total subjugation of the country, and we'll probably just have to watch on as Russia's behaviour gets ever more brutal, the longer Ukrainians can hold out.

20-03-2022 05:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809949#Comment_118809949

Strategy wise I think they have upped troops and assets in the region. That article reckons it could be all over for the baltics in 18 hours. This is now highly in doubt considering the Cluster F! the Ukraine has been for Russia.

The article also seems to concentrate on the gap, but I'd imagine at this stage Poland would go straight through Kaliningrad. I don't know, but we're at the stage where Russia has threatened nuclear war, so at that stage is there any point tip toeing around Kaliningrad ?

threeball · 20-03-2022 05:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809977#Comment_118809977

The whole point of the posts was that they were willing to take the risk in order that others not suffer in perpetuity.

To be honest anything else is just cowardly self interest from a bunch of voyeurs who love waffling about the war but only have an sympathy to the point it doesn't affect them. The reality is, in the long run, the price we pay is likely to be significantly higher than acting now.

Timing belt · 20-03-2022 05:20PM

Just looking at the ruble and wondering how long Russia can defend it and have they found a backdoor to the sanctions via India and China to prop up the currency

rogber · 20-03-2022 05:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809808#Comment_118809808

The last part of that makes no sense. As long as the West continues to refrain from direct intervention there will be no WW3.

20-03-2022 05:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810046#Comment_118810046

You mention risk. Can you elaborate what you think that risk involves if the risk comes to pass? Just to see if we understand each other.

EltonJohn69 · 20-03-2022 05:24PM

rogber · 20-03-2022 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810031#Comment_118810031

Exactly. Slow, brutal, much worse than expected, but Russia will win this war if it keeps going, Ukraine knows it too and that's why Zelensky is clearly willing for big compromise while there is still a country left to save

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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