Yes and no. No, if they had "just" invaded and taken the Donbas make pretend republics on the claim of "nazis". IMHO chances are extremely high he'd have gotten away with that far more. If he'd any sense he'd have taken them at the same time as Crimea, when nationalists were in more control and spin of "nazis" would have had more weight. The UN would have mumbled and thrown a bit of a wobbler, but I suspect little else.
Him going for broke and Kyiv I don't get, unless he is actually afraid of a NATO membership in the offing and his minions actually shared that fear. His propaganda to the Russian people certainly pushes that fear, a fear easily aroused in a nation that's been so often invaded. Even though if it was on the table it was a long way off. Ditto for EU membership. Of course his invasion and the worldwide condemnation and reaction to it has massively increased the chance of a much sooner EU offer. His monumental gamble and gaffe could still play out for him yet over NATO. Zalenskyy has essentially said on Wednesday Ukraine must accept it will never join NATO. "Ukraine is not a member of NATO, we have heard for years that the doors were open, but we also heard that we could not join. It’s a truth, and it must be recognised".
Now as we know things can change, but if all putin gets from this murderous campaign is that, he can still claim a victory in spin and BS to his people. Something he didn't have before he crossed Ukraine's border. He can spin the denatzification stuff too. He amped up the threat way above reality, so it'll be easy for him to ramp it down too. If his subjects bought the former, they'll swallow the latter.
The EU will be put on the long finger too, but it already was. IMHO the EU needs to go in their offering rebuilding help when the guns have fallen silent and the rat is back in his box in the Kremlin. It would be of enormous social, political and economic benefit to both Ukraine and the EU and build up trust and a better Ukraine with it.
He'll likely get some territory in the Donbas too. Personally if I were Ukraine, I'd offer help and homes to those who want to remain Ukrainian and leave that clusterfúck of ethnic strife behind.
Of a neutral Ukraine, knock yourself out Vlad. Neutrality is flexible and even the most neutral nation has the right to defend itself. A demilitarised Ukraine? GTFO. Never mind good luck in taking all those weapons back from people who've just been fighting and dying for their land.
So a victory for Ukraine that will make for a better ukraine after a time of grief and recovery. For Russia and putin, a pyrrhic victory. He gets no NATO, some land in the east which seems to be more trouble than it's worth, a massive hit to his country's reputation, politics and economy. Even if all the sanctions were lifted tomorrow, Europe will pivot away from his gas and oil and other natural resources. China will buy it at firesale prices. The confidence in the internal economy massively shaken, a ruble worth eff all and a breaking of trust in business internationally. It'll be a long time before anyone takes the risk of leasing or loaning to Mother Russia.
This "both sides" whataboutery again.
It's an illegal invasion based on manufactured propaganda a long time in the making. It follows up on Putin's illegal annexation of Crimea, and invasion by proxy of East Ukraine.
surtapall is another recently registered proputler user? boards.ie is more important than one could expect, Putler has more cyber resources than expected or Russians are that brainwashed?
52 posts eh?. Let's see how many pages you get to, shall we? You're playing with the adults now.
Yes there is only one possible interpretation of any extremely political situation. Anything that suggests complexity must be pulled out of the cave and sacrificed to pterodactyls to please the volcano gods.
Very sensible, very legit.
One should be careful to never underestimate the number of people who are simply incapable of viewing the Western powers as ever being on the right side of something. It does not necessarily require a Russian influence.
Doubt he will never get to enjoy staying there anymore? Makes a great target if needed?
Do they really think the people in question care? They probably despise democracy
If I was in Russia and a reporter came up to me and said ‘ doi support the special military mission in Ukraine and I am on my way home to cook the dinner I would “ say Yes I do” for an easy life. But I would definitely not tell him what I REALlY THINK. So the question really is with what % of the Russian pop support the war if they were really free to say so
It's for his home base fans. With a sideorder of worrying the West in the way you've kinda demonstrated. As it is he's pretty dug in where he holds land in Ukraine. Talks are ongoing and will keep ongoing until he leaves with a bit of paper he can tell his subjects he's won. As a matter of interest I've not heard anything today of Russian shelling or missle attacks on Kyiv or anywhere else. Is there a lull?
They just keep scraping to new lows
Next we'll have photos of some 80 year old in a wheelchair and a claim that he shot down 2 Russian jets.
Please don't tempt fate
Yeah I say if they could start this off again it would of been overwhelming fire power and massive amounts of troops across the border straight off. Not half arsed as such as they done 1st few days. Also I wonder if the Ukrainians weren't getting real time info from America etc. What way the map of Russia in control of Ukraine would of been now.
The countries you reference likely bought through Russia. One avenue cut off.
Don't you think NK would be a lot more nuked up/ dangerous if they had free trade?
But, you're still missing the point. Russia might still be able to get illicit items, but it had somewhat a working economy with a middle class... what's bye bye in Russian?
Only hearsay from locals in contact with relatives in western Ukraine ,but seemly a large number of troops and machinery moved from western areas eastwards.
People talking of small-scale Ukraine offensives today.
Sad. Refer to my previous comment to see if you can learn something. I'll not hold my breath.
All conflicts have become information wars, but good god the Russians are complete amateurs stuck somewhere in the 1990's at best. Their indoctrination is stuck in the 1950's. Well it worked and we can forget in the west that your average Russian has been exposed to this single narrative from the cradle onwards. It looks daft and creepy and primitive to us, but it's far more normal for them.
Because its what's going to happen. Your super power fight will have to remain a game on your computer.
Translation: "There's always a narrative I can create whereby other countries I don't like are equally to blame for all this"
I suspect I know where this is going, the land of false equivalence and concern trolling, but anywho
"Interviewer: Are you part of Kherson territorial defense?
Man: Nah, we are just locals, volunteers. I am telling you.
I: You are from this town?
Man: I was born here, grew up here, lived here and will live here. And nobody will kick me out of here.
I: And you will bury the ruskies here.
Man: I will fuck the ruskies till my last ****ing breath.
I: So tell me what happened yesterday?
Man: Yesterday. We went out to Myrne village, over there beyond the railroad tracks.
Man 2: Myrne, Mikolayev region.
I: I thought Myrne was in Kherson region.
M: No Myrne is Mykolaev.
I: But here we are in Kherson region.
M: Correct. So yesterday we came out and trashed 4 boxes. On our own, the three of us.
I: Only three, guys, you are heroes.
Man 2: We are no heroes!
I: The guys gave you some flies, right?
Man: Right, our UAF guys lent us some flies. and with those 6 flies we destroyed half the convoy. There are still many left there. We just didn’t have any ammo left.
I: Awesome! You guys are super great!
Man: Give us some weapons, we’ll do the job ourselves."
Please someone, give these men more 'flies'
This is only going to increase
Go on, show any proof of irregularities in terms of Zelensky being elected. Reminds me of the conspiracy theorists that think Trump won. Meanwhile Putin literally did have a puppet regime in Ukraine that collapsed as a result of Ukraine wanting a closer relationship with the west. But your logic appears to be that Ukraine should not have the right to self determination.
For the record, all indications are this was always on the cards for Putin and he will use any tenuous reason to justify it.
Do they mean drones you think?
They never seem to present the slightest evidence of anything. Lots of talk of 'fake news' but they never back it up with proof.
Fuckin hell, big moves from Xi Jinping earlier... Wants to effectively put China fully on par with America by the sounds of it.
The real kicker is that if someone were to invade Russia and try to take their homeland the invaders would find the same mad bastards ready to kill them. That the Russians have forgotten/didn't realise the same of Ukrainians, a people very close and like them when it comes to their homeland shows just how dumb they've been.
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