If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
It's done after this .
People have gotten a wake up call and now realise were on our own in the event of a larger conflict breaking out, even the older generation are getting onboard.
As a Nato member we would have guaranteed help , unlike now oh but America or the British will save us,
No such agreement or treaties with either to say they will help
We've been on our own through every major conflict since the foundation of the state and it has been a successful policy.
I still see no compelling argument for joining NATO or any real public appetite to do the same.
A tiny but loud minority have been banging the drum on social media about a militarisation they scarcely understand. These voices will fade once the situation in Ukraine is resolved and/or drops from the front page.
Important to note that I'm not against an increased defence budget, I am against an abandonment of 100 odd years of honourable, successful neutrality.
@Gatling
Guaranteed help to save us from whom?
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/europe-would-be-in-dire-straits-now-if-we-had-listened-to-sinn-fein-on-nato-3598980 Sinn Fein’s past hostility towards NATO ‘shows party was peeing into the wind, and it has come back to hit them in the face
One does have to wonder if Sinn Fein had had their way, what state Europe would be in now.
"Foreign spokesman Seán Crowe TD said in 2014 that “NATO is nothing more than a cold war relic that needs to be disbanded”."
Simon covney on the radio earlier about sending body armor and MREs to ukraine which is already enroute Ireland is not neutral
Sale or supply of materials (including weapons) does not end neutrality.
Belligerence ends neutrality: entering a war on one side or the other.
Ireland remains a neutral country.
Also Simon Coveney:
“I don't believe that Ireland is likely to join Nato anytime soon,” he said in his annual address to the Irish Institute of European Affairs on Wednesday.
Didn't rule it out did he,
It's going to happen what's happening in Ukraine isn't going to be forgotten,and with no treaties with any other country or countries were on our own ,and no amount ohhh we're neutral please don't hurt is is going to help,
It's as likely as it was 10 years or 20 years ago.
Russia annexed Crimea and invaded Ukraine in 2014 btw.
We have managed on 'our own' through WW2 and the Cold War when the threat was much higher, I dare say we will manage in the future if the lame attempts here to concoct a threat are anything to go by.
By the time there is any significant risk to Ireland it will be on its own anyway as the rest of Europe will have already fallen. Being in NATO isn't going to help if NATO no longer exists, and it's not really going to help before then either as it just puts you higher up the target list.
We would be targeted either Way .
We live in a new world
We still don't live in a world in which Ireland is a realistic target for invasion by any capable power, despite the illiterate hysteria generated by events in Ukraine.
as i said that is apparently not the case, help from nato for members is not in fact guaranteed, only that a meeting to discuss the issue is guaranteed and obligated.
so no, joining nato does not guarantee us any help, but does guarantee us rising in being a legitimate target.
i am in agreement that the "well shur the brits and americans will come and save us" defense strategy we have is unviable but nato membership is also unviable.
he is correct ultimately.
it's not fit for purpose and brings no actual guarantees to it's members.
Even Sinn Fein are quietly hiding their previous opposition to NATO in one of the biggest political u-turns in decades.
Why not 4/5 years ,
Either way defense spending will have to increase by at least 1-2 billion
If ok with us joining nato are you ok with Mandatory Military Service and training for every able-bodied person of a certain age group? There is no point in us joining unless we can actually fight if needed.
U-Turn?
Doesn't sound like much of a u-turn - from an interview today:
Sinn Féin also has “no desire” for Ireland to be part of NATO, said McDonald. That would be “wrong” and would be an “absolutely fundamental error”, she said.
Others have a different view, said the Sinn Féin leader, highlighting what she claims have been attempts over many years, particularly from Fine Gael, to try and move Ireland towards the European Defence process and to further alignment with NATO.
“We think that’s the wrong move and absolutely the wrong position for us. So where there is a lack of clarity on this issue, it’s not around us, it’s around others who may try and use this war, initiated by Putin, to try and shift Ireland away from our traditional policy. That’s a mistake,” said McDonald.
What Nato countries have mandatory military service
Defence spending was cut to ribbons by the power swap. Of course we have to pay for the work our defence forces do and have always done.
Remember during the Crash Mary Lou talking about alternative funds available other than the EU .
Makes you wonder where exactly these alternatives funds were going to come from ....... Marie le pen received loans from Moscow at the time they first invaded ukraine
And now it will have to be increased year on year going forward until we have the capability to detect , deter from foreign aggression,
What 'foreign aggression'? Have you a crystal ball?
Sean Crowe is on record as saying that NATO should be disbanded, full stop. Is that still Sinn Fein foreign policy - to disband NATO to leave Europe open to invasion by Putin?
There have been plenty of Sinn Fein posters on here who have repeatedly complained about Ireland standing idly by in 1969 who are now the loudest shouters for Ireland standing idly by when our European neighbours are being invaded by a dangerous fascist-like regime in Russia. Quite the hypocrisy, don't you think?
That is exactly what she meant. At the time, Sinn Fein were regular visitors to Moscow and shared platforms with Putin. All scrubbed now from the Sinn Fein website.
Probably hoping for jobs with a new regime
Iceland hasn't even got a military, let alone mandatory service.
Although I did hear those Icelandic Coastguard guys in the fish inspection section, they're quite lethal handing out fines from their clipboards.
😁 Our own people were in danger blanch...slightly different scenario.
No idea what their policy position is on NATO. Do FG have one as they seem to think joining is not on the cards anytime soon, Simon is on record etc etc.
I wonder do they remember the good times when they were aligned with the communists.
"The party said yesterday that its two new MEPs, Ms Bairbre de Brún and Ms Mary Lou McDonald, had been accepted into the European United Left/ Nordic Green Left group in the Parliament.
Most MEPs affiliated to the group are communists or former communists, including members of the successor parties to the communists who governed in eastern Europe before the fall of the Berlin Wall."
Sinn Fein have a long-standing affinity with Putin's Russia, hence their opposition today to joining NATO and at best, their ambiguity on its very existence. It would be very dangerous for Ireland's security to let them anywhere near the levers of power.
The exclusionary nationalist approach at work again. We can only defend "our" people. Those Slavic Ukrainians are not worthy of our support, eh?
