Based on how the US and NATO have behaved up until this point I can't imagine anything other than a large-scale and obviously Kremlin-ordered Russian attack on sovereign NATO soil could drag NATO any further into the conflict.
And even at that I suspect any response would be very precise and "proportional": i.e. they might target some sort of equipment belonging to the unit which was supposedly behind any attack; or in failing that they might target some infrastructure in Crimea.
Just give me a Javlin and a rooftop.
We can survive a few years with our existing mobiles and low value plastic tat until Western countries reorientate their supply chain away from China.
We in the west just need food and fuel to survive which we don't rely on China for.
Yes it will be tough for companies to re-adjust but China need to get the message loud and clear, support Russia in the war and sanctions and isolation are on the way!
Hard to know what's going on behind the scenes, but I imagine the Chinese are embarrassed by Russia's farce of an invasion.
I agree, but the blunt reality is thw west needs cheap labour, because without it, we will pay alot more for goods. Moving away from Chinese goods would take a generation, India is the only country that can match China for size but they're no where near geared up for that business. Other south east Asian countries that can manufacture are ultimately tiny by comparison.
I've seen it first hand in the industry I work in, Quality British made products coming up against garbage made in China, now, the British brand is made in China landed for less than half the price and not a patch on what it used to be. People like to blame "greedy companies" but the reality is its consumer driven
I absolutely agree, the west needs to diversify, be it major investment in countries like India, Brazil and Indonesia but its not a quick move. Its requires active policy change to which I would 100% endorse
Cut the Chinese off. If they are arming Russia, it's time for us to really start putting our money where our mouth is, because if we don't, what is the point to any of this?
People are just going to have to get used to not being enslaved to the cheap plastic materialistic based culture that the likes of the Chinese and their corporatist benefactors have literally brainwashed nearly all of us in the West into. Too bad if that means some of ye can't get Nike runners or Burberry scarves for a few years, hardly the end of the world. Because, the other option is that it actually will be the end of our world, as long as everybody here is beholden to the likes of the Chinese, and their prison labour and concentration camps to go with it.
Yep. Not sure what he's doing in Turkey. Maybe just a wee holiday. It's been a bit stressful for him recently 😁
Can see this play out.
'OKAY, we won't supply arms to Russia. But, you cannot support Taiwan*.'
China sitting on the sidelines, Putin (the clown) doing their dirty work. The request for arms was way too in the open. It's like China has wound up everybody and watching it play out perfectly.
*China will use a different name.
Buy Chinese, get your children to learn Mandarin.
I wonder if putting everything in the open by the Yanks might have run its course now. I can't imagine the Chinese are delighted about it being made public in the way it has, could imagine them saying "Well **** yis then".
Is the latter the Chelsea (ex-?) Owner?
I think its a big leap to that point, but it's certainly a serious turn.
Id be more concerned if they supplied soldiers tbh.
China's so embedded in the global supply chain that cutting it off in any major way isn't really doable. I mean, it is doable, in the sense of where there's a will, but there isn't really a will. What cutting off China means for the person on the street is what makes it politically untenable.
Moving manufacturing off to some other developing country would take time for them to have their infrastructure in place, and even then it probably means making another monster in time. You could move manufacturing back to the west, but that would mean either needing to steeply raise the prices of goods made there to cover the higher wages of western workers, or maybe drastically slash the salaries of executives, and that is something the executives would never stand for.
Agreed it's not good for the thread so leaving it there.
If China supply arms it's inevitable, we are watching the beginning of ww3
I would wait and see on the question of whether China offers Russia aid. No-one knows apart from the Chinese themselves, so what information is doing the rounds at the moment is pure hyperbole.... and I don't believe for a second that there's a mole within the inner circle of Xi Jingping who would willingly show the Chinese hand.
FT seem to be reporting China's openness to arms supplying
Sure, but China needs the year on year rise in trade growth, especially as there may be a whopping property bubble that could knock them for six. COVID too is rearing its head once more for them. Not all that convinced the claim is true at all and I think they just want to stay out of it. The big loss for them is that it undoes the important global image they want to project and people will laugh at any claims of their looking for peace.
That can be undone too it was pure convivence that we got involved with china, i think the west should start systematically cutting off these countires why pander to them? It d take time but we could most defiantly ween of china and russia oil and gas and we d be all the better for it.
Just watched a press meeting in Washington on TV and it was talked about by the US representative ( not sure who ) so its true alright.
He was very strong in his advice that this would be a seriously bad idea for China...
Christ this is really going global 😳
Well think of it this way, next time we are scratching our heads wondering why people in Russia aren't rising up we can just show at some of the posts here, like how a single unverified clip of someone singing is enough to condemn all the palestinians and how for some the actions of terrorists justify crimes against civilians. Or even better how a post claiming the German Green Party were linked to Russia citing no evidence at all can get 15 thanks, while one pointing out that to the contrary, they were the only party against Nordstream 2, gets ignored.
There's the problem. The west can't sanction China like they are with Russia. Western countries have made a monster. They're absolutely beholden to the Chinese for practically all goods in their market to some extent or another. Made great sence when consumers wanted to buy cheap and companies tried to remain competitive. Walk around your house. Pick 10 items. Most if not all are made in China or have components made there. Even the big European made brands, cars etc, may be assembled in Germany or France but you can be certain there's Chinese components there.
China know this too.
China are afraid that Putin might be overthrown, and if he is they could have a democratic hostile Russian on their border, this is the last thing Xi wants to see, so he might bail Putin out
Take a look at yourself and get a grip.
Myself or no-one else on the thread has said it's fine to blow up hospitals and children, so be very careful who you point your finger at with your lies.
Spouting off about "they did this" and "he did that" so many years ago doesn't help anything or anyone. We're not talking about Iraq, Iran, Israel, Syria, WW2 or anywhere else... we're talking about the HERE AND NOW, and Russia's unlawful invasion of Ukraine and the indiscriminate killing of civilians. Harping on about "well so and so kills civilians", and "we allow it to happen here and there" doesn't help with what's actually happening NOW and only derails the thread.
Why cant folk just concentrate on the humanitarian aspect, what could be done, what will happen, etc, instead of dozens of people on Boards who are set on making comparisons to past, and a few recent events.
@greenpilot
Then Russia invades Ukraine and all off a sudden everyone cares. Why?
Well, let's see, now...
It's the first war of this scale in Europe since the turn of the century.
It's prompting what looks to be the biggest refugee crisis in Europe since WW2.
It demarcates a precipitous and pretty sudden decline in relations between Russia and the West.
It's a conflict that threatens to bring Russia and NATO into direct military conflict, which leads into a concern about runaway escalation, and the N word (not that one - the other one).
Not to mention the long term implications of cutting Russia off and making it a pariah, meaning the West is going to have to quite a bit of reshuffling to reduce dependence on Russia in some areas.
But apart from that, yes, it's all fine. The events over there will never ever affect us in any appreciable way.
(nervous laughter)
Cut the Chinese off and do it immediately. Should have been done decades ago before they started flooding our territories with prison labour produced cheap trash, which was totally done in order to decimate our indigenous industries. Cut to the f**king chase and sanction them harder.
It's likely it's what's has been said in the last day or so. They have denied that.
It's looking like they will be defaulting on sovereign debt for the first time in a 100 years too , this will take a toll over time a serious one
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