Going beyond the break away regions was baffling on so many fronts. If he'd 'just' taken the 'independent republics' I'd be very surprised if a tenth of the shít that has descended on Russia would have happened. I think putin simply got high on his own supply and believed the bullshít he was peddling and what his underlings told him. That the Ukrainian people would laud him as a saviour from 'nazis' and welcome him in with little enough resistance. The way the Russian troops behaved in the very early stages of this war suggests they thought similar. That Ukrainian guy who stopped his car and chatted with the Russian troops who ran out of petrol and suggested he'd give them a tow, back to Russia, with laughter all around. I can't see that happening today. More like what happened to that elderly couple just driving in their car.
Of course they can win it. If they are given the weapons. The Soviet Union was defeated by Afghanistan ffs.
If you support arming Ukraine at all it has to be to win the war, for Russia to be routed and Ukraine's full territorial integrity to be restored. And for this to happen as quickly as possible.
Anything else is immoral and treats Ukraine as merely a pawn in a proxy war without any regard at all for the Ukrainian people.
Again read what I wrote. Where did I say no army? Where did I say no EU? I would bet the farm that before this war no way in hell would the majority of people here would want Ukraine in the EU until serious changes were made in their country. The EU wouldn't. The need for those changes didn't magically go away.
on July 15, 2004, following a meeting of the Ukraine-NATO commission, President Kuchma of Ukraine issued a decree stating that joining NATO was no longer the country's goal - only "a significant deepening of relations with NATO and the European Union as guarantors of security and stability in Europe, question arises from this, did Ukraine sell out in order to get closer to the prizes,spoils and money that comes with being aligned with the west?
Indeed, "pinch of salt" is my favorite phrase in here, plus we're obviously receiving a lot of Ukraine-centric info, but there's a line between healthy skepticism and a badly hidden agenda. All the pro-Putin and hardcore anti-Western individuals didn't just disappear, quite a few in here pointing out any Ukrainian soldier they can find with a far-right tattoo or always questioning casting doubt on the latest Russian atrocity.
I have to agree with you, the speech he did before the invasion about Ukraine not being a real country would lead you to believe that he could decide the same about the Baltic states. It was chilling. Whatever about him arguing about security or bullshit de Nazification, a historical claim to Russian empire/ USSR land is frightening.
I didn't think he thought he would be stupid enough to invade Ukraine so he could be stupid enough to invade the Baltic states or decides he likes the look of some of Poland for his "security". I don't think he will. But then again I never thought he would invade Ukraine. I thought maybe go into the break away regions but not further. And I don't consider myself a cheerleader after Chechnya and bombing his own people and killing journalists I know he was a monster. Just thought he was a rational one.
Wars are 'won' by many means. Unless the West goes in with boots on the ground military, which would be beyond retarded for any number of reasons, the Ukrainians cannot win this war by conventional means. Not going to happen. I support the west arming the Ukrainians and the across the board sanctions against Russia because it buggers Russia up on all fronts. And the longer they're bogged down the more they will come to the table, or their country and autocrats face utter ruin. As it is they're a dead man walking politically, economically, militarily and morally.
Well that is what it will mean. Can you honestly say that with no EU membership, no NATO membership, no army, almost landlocked that the Russians will just be like "Grand job lads. You do you!"?
Again, this isn't meant to be an attack or a "Gotcha", I'm genuinely trying to figure out what world Ukraine will rebuild and thrive in while under the Russian yoke because the last time they tried to actually get their **** together we ended up with the current war.
According to Hristo Grozev and his sources:
So just accept getting raped indefinitely? Dead on.
Get back to me when you actually read what I wrote.
😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
There is real risk for civilians to go out wandering like that. Earlier in thread there is a recording of a purported call between a Russian soldier and woman where a civilians came across their position in the woods. They were shot in case they would give away their position.
Foolhardy or ballsy Igor.
"Get them involved in the conflict" is a bit loaded - "Come to their defence after being attacked by a brutal and much larger aggressor" would be a better way of phrasing it. We're not talking about a conflict between two equals.
Seems they need to agree on what to say beforehand
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1501967258654060548
Yep, but few Western battalions were recently founded by facists like the Azoz and Wagner groups and supported by their respective governments tacitly and openly. Neo Nazi groups are a problem in Russia and Ukraine. A small problem, but a problem nonetheless. Though the rise of this Z shíte in Russia shows how it's not such a small problem in Russia anymore. Their old tendencies are coming to the fore. Their blind nationalism, their fear and hatred of the outsider, their clampdown on the press and criminalisation of dissent, their autocratic leadership, even the strong whiff of a Putin Youth. Yes Ukraine has facists in her ranks. To suggest otherwise is blinkered, but it's less in play than it was, while Russia is publicly becoming a fascist state day by day.
I mean I get the skepticism. It's hard for the human psyche to accept some of the frankly horrendous goings on, and it's hard not to think like the devils advocate. Like that sedan that was blown up by the tanks, my first thought was that it seemed a bit off, and even though there was secondary explosions there was no burning or scorching of the apparent victims. I'm not trying to argue it's a fake, but these are the things that go on in your head, especially knowing that wartime propaganda is a real thing.
Yes a big oul slap of a Javelin 💥 to the face
Where will you get your fix of Sandy Hook deniers claiming to be foreign policy experts now?
Tbf there's a pretty big reason WHY they won't just give those areas up... pretty much exactly why Russia want them
Donbass - *cough - shale gas reserves - cough*
Crimea - *cough - natural gas reserves in the Black Sea - cough*
Calling it "jingoistic bollocks" isn't much of an argument. The fact is this war has to be won. Won. Not dragged out. Won.
Do you support the west arming Ukraine?
If so, to what end do you support arming them?
What should be the desired end goal to be achieved as a result of arming them?
This is only to your last line there, what is "genocide"? I've seen some "suggestions" but most of them would rule any actions taken up til now that I've ever heard of from being genocide.
Is that how you'd do it, big man?
The Russians shelled a nuclear reactor. We've had two weeks of atrocities, multiple hospitals have been shelled, apartment blocks, we're not just talking about precision artillery, they are launching grad missiles at residential areas, using dumb munitions from aircraft. They have thermobaric weapons in the area and have used them. These are not all "mistakes".
Awaiting further orders.
Hopefully a Javelin to the face
Is RT down in Ireland? I notice a lot of people in the US, Netherlands, Italy, Slovenia etc stating that it is down in those locations.
NATO will not get involved, no matter how much Ukraine pleads, but even if Ukraine gave a reason good enough, you can bet your bottom dollar NATO would have checked its validity from multiple angles, including in-person verification. They wouldn't be doing anything based on a Twitter video, whether the video was real or fake.
Yeah, citations please. How do they know the appartments are FSB people. Is that listed in CrimeaDaft.ie? And where's the before and after the war difference? Just because Russian mouthpieces are full of shít, doesn't mean we should take information that isn't Russian at face value either.
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