If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
You want the freedom for us to intervene where we like. Undermining all the arguments you made elsewhere.
You are done here mark, trussed up in your own desire to score a point.
Ok, so that is a No, you don't advocate to remove it and you are quite happy with the veto the Chinese, Americans, French, Russians and the old enemy, 'da Brits' have on our foreign policy.
Anyway, tell us what you expect the Irish government to do without the triple lock...where will we go on our jolly japes? Will we be colonists or just rape and plunder? ROFL
This comment is very telling. It shows you don't trust the Irish people, the Dail or the government, as if we need the UN and its permanent Security Members to keep us in check because, without it, we are going to rape our way through the Middle East or North Africa.
Shocking and bizarre comment from yourself.
Mature western liberal democracies the world over, like Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the like don't have a triple lock, and they don't end up being colonists or rapists.
Foreign policy is not dictated to us, our Foreign Minister can even go to Russia to suck up for a vote.
I'll say this again but it will probably fall on deaf ears again, peacekeeping needs an umbrella group and the UN is the best we have. I didn't establish the veto.
What else do you advise ignoring the UN on BTW?
Would you advocate getting rid of the Triple Lock, which means that the Russians or Brits veto foreign policy decisions for us.
Yes or No... its that simple.
One can look at it like this
1) Keep the political status quo
2) Keep the political status quo but fund the DF better (options B or C in that report)
3) Actually keep neutral, like Sweden but this will mean massive increases in defence spending
4) Get rid of the triple-lock. Personally, I think it's crazy that we allow permanent members of the UN Security Council to dictate foreign policy terms to us. It essentially means the Russians, Chinese or the British get to veto a decision, we the Irish people make.
5) Join NATO*
At least NATO comes with a security blanket protection and other benefits. At the moment the triple lock comes with zero benefits.
The cranks and usual crew won't like any of those options though.
*There is also the possibility of some future EU army or DF or something like that.
What question? The one trying to goad me? You think the mention of the word 'British' will send me into a death spiral? Bless mark, poor you.
I dont follow.
I think yet again you wont ask another simple question. Plainly obvious as to why, but anyway.
Finance the DF's properly and feck off with the gung ho stuff is what they should be told. Leo trying to blame the downgrading of the DF'S on Irish people thinking the US or UK coming to our rescue was obscene. They downgraded the DF and our state services to the point they are at.
We're bankrupt? Someone get on to Paschal there that he needs to call the IMF.
Couldn't have said it any better.
Ireland, under no threat whatsoever, bankrupt, should pull cash out of thin air to build up its military defence capabilities. Hilarious.
You cannot undo you faux pas mark. You change with the wind to score a point and undermined your own torturous logic. Still giggling here.
You clearly advocate keeping the triple lock, which essentially means that the Irish Government and Dail cannot be trusted, we need Russians and Brits to veto us in case we accidentally or otherwise invade some random Latin American country.
Do other countries have a similar setup? I cant think of any.
I never pronounced 'faith' in anything mark. I pointed out the lock exists and that we have more say than the UN has (as you claimed) as two arms of the state have to approve any mission.
I also believe peacekeeping needs an umbrella group behind it and the UN is the best we have got.
Other than that you are now once again projecting and trying it on.
If you have anything relevant to the topic, say it. Otherwise...good luck.
Not really a counterargument.
It seems you have more faith in the Brits or the Russians than your own Irish government.
Here is what you said about the lock:
I would remove it and let the Dail and Government decide what our defence forces are to be used for. Surely you agree?
I.E. Hypothetically, a government could send troops were they wished.
Giggling to myself here at how you just demolished your previous arguments to try and ...well you know what you were doing yourself.
I was asking you, would you advocate to remove it.
Apparently not, so Brits vetoing us is fine by you.
Oh the irony bomb!
Then when it comes to the North, ignore the Triple Lock, and the UN and invade a NATO member unilaterally, with no international support.
You are not very good at this, are you? :)
I didn't create the triple lock mark. The government at the time accepted that as part of the decision making process. Taunt them about it.
Ideally peacekeeping needs a very broad alliance behind it and the umbrella of the UN (flaws and all) is the best we have got.
I did think that we should have went in anyway to the north which was at the time, constitutionally disputed territory in our eyes. Even if it was wrong it was still the right thing to do morally and we can still do that (break the triple lock if we wish)
Interesting to see that you now think the UN part of the lock is a bad thing and the government should be free to send troops were they wish.
Yes, apparently if we join Nato on Sunday, we will be kicking down doors in Noth Africa on Monday.
Or, if we get rid of the Triple Lock on Wednesday, we will be invading Venezuela on Thursday.
ROFL! People and their scaremongering.
Well was it not you who wanted to send troops North as 'peacekeepers'?
It seems you have no faith in the Irish Government or the people who elect them.
Sending troops abroad is of huge consequence and would not be taken lightly. It seems you have more faith in the Brits or the Russians who have a veto than the Irish people and government themselves.
We're going to become an offence force by joining NATO?
Have you thought this through Mark.
That would mean our government (whosoever it is) could send our troops anywhere. We could send them into the north if required for instance...or to Venezuela.
Given your previous views, I can be confident that you haven't given this a second's thought other than using it trying to rile people.
As a world umbrella group the UN is the best we have despite it's flaws.
No, that's part and parcel of us having the triple lock.
WTF 😂
That's part and parcel of being in the UN, the top 5 have a veto. Are you only finding this out now?
Yes, absolutely. The defence forces have been crying out for years for proper funding to do the job they should be doing.
Joining a military alliance brings us into a different realm though. Rather than being defence forces the would become an offence force. And we as a people do not want to do that.
By all means properly fund our defence force though.
The Brits, the Russians and the Chinese have a veto on how we use our defence forces. You seem OK with that.
Francie seems very confused: The primary reason we have a military is not peace keeeping abroad, it's the defence of our territory, obviously it's completely incapable of that but that's what we should be focused on. I know Irish people are addicted to for the pat on the head from abroad for being good chaps but we may have to forgo that for a bit and make like the Finns
I don't. Other than a penchant for taunting about Britain what is that post about?
sorry if you have already stated and i missed reading your post -
Fact no need or help.If a conflict with russia\china etc.
nato\eu\uk\usa being on their side does nothing
in a conflict ireland being western soil on atlantic to usa is seen as a possible landing point into europe for usa
Hence one of the first for nuke strike to remove possible use.
i am inclined usa also targets for the same purpose to stop a large force use ireland as springboard to usa.
You gotta get real - we not talking a tank against a tank with a major conflict
Nato no use to ireland but endangers its citizens as be dragged into minor conflicts.
THIS why usa\uk\nato NOT engage in ukraine -
the usa bluff called and bullying has come to an end .
Just like borris uk only one to take uk out of eu - putin only one to say stop usa and has the nukes if try to silence him.
IT is a new era and time to rethink whom\what is good for the citizens and forget about threats from usa.
remind you there is a 3 billion population whom did not support usa led un action against russia
usa and eu is 300 million - whom we better trading with ? as i not interested in getting roasted for corrupt usa\irish\eu politicians
whom are already getting rich on our taxes and dont feel what the majority of citizens feel as poverty\high prices\poor sevices etc.
