Dammit, mutant, you stole my goodbye...
Is it NATO expansion, or sovereign nations deciding to join NATO? He also expressed his paranoia over the EU and its "expansion" again should he have a say on what sovereign nations should be allowed to join? In general, the countries who want to join the EU, see it as a way to improve their economies.
Totally agree. IMHO this is largely about the fear that Ukraine a large country physically and population wise might develop into a functioning democracy and having that sitting on his doorstep in stark contrast to life under his authoritarian dictatorship in Russia as well as the authoritarian regime in Belarus would seriously destabilize the authoritarian regimes grip on power in Russia. There also does seem to be a certain amount of yearning for a re-establishing of the old Russia empire aka the USSR on Putins part but that also fits right in with the fear of a functioning democracy developing in Ukraine.
He’s sent aid to Ukraine and put heavy sanctions on Russia.
Now he’s banned Russian aircraft from American airspace.
Maybe he shouldn’t have called the invasion “smart” and putin “savvy”.
Some early news items
Ukraine is set to receive more Stinger and Javelin missiles from abroad, as well as another shipment of Turkish drones, according to Ukrainian defence minister Oleksii Reznikov.
Germany is prepared should Russia stop exporting gas to the country, minister for the economy Robert Habeck has said.
Asked by Deutschlandfunk radio what the government would do if Russia stops gas exports, Reuters reports Habeck replied:
We are prepared for that. I can give the all-clear for the current winter and summer. For the next winter, we would take further measures.
Russia cancelled a bid to send four of its warships through Turkish waters into the Black Sea at Turkey’s request, Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said, adding the decision was made before Ankara closed the straits over Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine.
The issue of exhilaration masked as concern goes well beyond this thread (most news media outlets make their living using this phenomenon) but it’s definitely pretty potent here to be fair.
In fact when anyone has suggested ideas (including myself) that Ukraine should consider concessions to stop the fighting it’s shut down immediately. The assumption is made that it’s some subtle way of being a Putin backer. I was called a scumbag. Not for a minute do people need to consider the war stopping needs to be a priority and Ukraine are outnumbered and outgunned and the West won’t be stepping in with forces on the ground.
What will eventually happen in this thread is either:
I hope it’s number 1 and if it means Ukraine have to give up NATO and EU and instead get security guarantees then that’s about as much a win as they are going to get.
The Russian research ship, Yantar, widely known to be a spy vessel and capable of underse aoperations is currently sitting off the coast of Denmark. This vessel was working off the Mayo Coast in August, right over the optical cables on the sea bed in the area where the Russian navy conducted their "training" exercises.
There is nothing currently showing on ATIS, but I'm surprised that there is no overwatch of that area being conducted by NATO at the moment, given its vulnerability.
Putin and others in Moscow just do not view Ukraine as a country and yes a re-birth of the Russian Empire, not the USSR, is a part of his vision. There's also a deluded assumption that Ukraine would ever welcome this.
The NATO expansion line used in defence of Putin shows how successful propaganda can be. Granted there is propaganda coming from all sides.
If you go to Finland and talk to the Finnish, talk to Estonians, Latvians or Lithuanians in Ireland - they never trusted Putin and couldn’t wait to get their countries into NATO. Finland opted to stay neutral but with big defence spending. Sometimes the aggressor really is the dictator sitting in Moscow. The Salisbury incident in the U.K. should have showed people what a thug Putin can be.
Why should the Ukraine give up any prospect of ever joining any alliance with another country on the whim of a neighbour? Especially when that same neighbour refuses to acknowledge their right to existence and would forcibly take their land. This isn't as simple as giving up NATO and/or EU options. Do that and they are confined to Russian bedfellows regardless of the outcome.
People are trying to make sense of this and most are pretty angry about it so it's not a surprise to see some respond accordingly but I can't say I've seen clichés about Russians. Almost everyone has acknowledged that this is a Putin war, not a Russian one and certainly not one supported by the Russian nation. Yes, the adult comment applies to all posters even those judgemental know better posters wagging fingers at others.
It's a talking point. Here's an article from the Guardian ( hardly propaganda ) which breaks down events pretty well
No where did I say I agreed with Putin or believe a word that comes out of his mouth - all I was looking for was more information. Obviously I agree attacking Ukraine in this manner is totally unjust, some of the videos I've seen in recent days are sickening
Russia’s belief in Nato ‘betrayal’ – and why it matters today
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/12/russias-belief-in-nato-betrayal-and-why-it-matters-today
Yeah I read that, she makes some very good points but also a little bit histrionic. Annoying article format too!
It is definitely deluded. There is a reason why (with the exception of Belarus and Transnistria) all European ex-eastern bloc countries look to the west, and not Russia - the collapse of the Soviet Union was a good thing. No-one outside Russia wants Putin's recreation of a Soviet/Russian empire to happen, everyone's moved on and the countries to the west of Russia are now democracies. Also, just because they had an empire before doesn't grant them a god-given right to act like they still got one.
To me, Putin's actions aren't any different to if Queen Elizabeth suddenly announced, "right, we're restarting the British Empire. First, we'll add Ireland, then Australia, then Canada, and then the USA". No-one would say "well, she was provoked by the East, so she is within her rights to act".
That is why Putin needs to be stopped. Hopefully he doesn't destroy his great country before that happens.
UK MoD on the latest situation.
Thats a list of facists and communists, FFS Golden Dawn in there. Well done Mick and Claire you are 1930s politicians.
Anyone have a list of the 26 abstentions?
if this is the case, with people living outside Russia thinking like this, what are the chances of people living within Russia to oppose Putin?
Our government, and whether you like them or no,they are our Irish government support Ukraine in its war with the Russian invaders. IMO, and I have to be careful as I received a warning already, those who do not condemn putin regardless of their nationality should be treated as enemies of our state.
Very interesting contributions from you sir!
Are you referring to Russia attempting against the communications infrastructure, impacting the West?
There is a third option. Ukrainian forces begin a pushback and begin to take the upper hand.
There seems to be a lot of activity on the ground and in the air over and around Ukraine that we, as ordinary citizens, are not aware of. But there are many clues.
The OSINT Community are seeing signs that it may be possible for the Ukranians to take full advantage of Russian difficulties. NATO and USAF aircraft are feeding enormous amounts of data to the Ukranian armed forces on troop movements. The West have supplied and trained the Ukranians to use Western compatible encrypted Data and Communication equipment over the last few years.
It's highly likely, as one poster mentioned earlier, that a move against the large military column will happen very soon. If that does occur, the game is up for Russia.
Exactly, and thank you. I'm really surprised, as I mentioned in another post, that the data cables off the West Coast are not being monitored or at least inspected in and around the area where both the Russian research vessel, the Vantar, was working or the naval exercises took place. What if, hypothetically speaking, they left something behind. The ace up the sleeve.
Plenty of evidence the Russians are using cellphones and off the shelf retail radios to issue commands. All of them unencrypted.
Ok ffs. Time for the world to say enough is enough. The Russians cant be let act with impunity using the thinly veiled threats of nukes to push their way around. Lets give the Ukraine some proper help in the form of troops and planes.
#fuckrussia
I was reading that conscripts get under $25 a month for their required year whereas those with a 3 year contract get over $1000. That hardly helps morale.
On that. Is there any confirmation on the reported reclamation of an area in Donetsk previously held by separatists?
Think it's highly unlikely Ukraine have the bodies to push the Russians back much as I would love it to happen .Putin will unleash whatever he has and that is a lot . Still hoping against hope he is stopped but am pretty worried for the people of Ukraine .
The Americans must be looking at that convoy sitting there thinking feck we could take out most of Putins army in 20 mins.
Will they ever get a better chance?
Must be very frustrating.
There needs to be investigations into people and lobby groups at least. It was found that there were Gazprom funded lobbyists who were funded to try and get countries to abandon nuclear.
Russia were also siphoning money to fund Anti-Fracking campaign's
With the exception of 2-4, I don't think any Irish politicians have been compromised by Russia. But there are NGOs constantly in the ears of government politicians in regard to Green issues. We abandoned our own gas exploration. We shut down our power production plants. We banned turf burning and then proceeded to import it from Latvia because it was too soon.
Everything was too soon. The push was hard. We could all see it was too soon. Except for politicians who were getting lobbied hard.
And I haven't even mentioned the dodgy stuff that the former German chancellor was doing with Gazprom. It's all there for Gerhard Schroeder.
I have a feeling that convoy will be in smithereens before the day is out.
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