I would bloody hope so, but cowards the lot of them, unfortunately. Should have happened before this and with history in mind, waiting for some incomprehensible atrocity shouldn't be necessary. There is more than sufficient threat to western principles, values and moralities to act now. I think we have reached this juncture precisely because no one has stood up to Putin's outrageous behaviours in the past, proving to him that the west is weak so he can get away with more. We are seeing the consequences of our moral cowardice, weakness and failure to act morally right now. Failing to call his bluff now is to risk worse in the future. Putin has aims and goals and a vision of a great Russia. He can't achieve any of those if he goes nuclear and condemn his country to annihilation.
Even if that were achieved, a lot of their troll farms are based outside of Russia.
The west is totally letting him dictate what is and isn't a red line. NATO does seem to be sticking technically to its role as a defensive alliance. Practically though since we are clearly a participant in the conflict.
Since we're talking agreements, here's Ukraine handing over their nukes for a promise they wouldn't be threatened or invaded. Is it any wonder eastern European countries want to join NATO?
UKRAINE NEWS on Instagram: ""Купянск - это Украина". В Купянске люди с голыми руками бросились на машину с российским военными, которую те отобрали у мирных жителей."
Greeting them with flowers.
How come Belarus can join war with Russia but Putin would have a Mickey fit if Ukraine had boots?
Are you in Ireland?
Can you put a bag for life from a local store on the table, a receipt from the bottom of the bag, a letter head from Irish Water or ESB, a coin from your pocket with the Harp showing, Lidl Irish own brand something, a tag from jocks or a tea towel bought in dunnes stores or a bag or sugar? Any of the above. Take a picture, attach it to your response. I'd like to know if you are a Bot or if people sympathetic to the Russian regieme are Walking around North King Street and Smithfield Square.
Is 1985 your year of birth. If so, were your grandparents not a bit young to be fighting in WWII
Is the same not happening in Ukraine?
Ukraine has learned alot of the West I'm its time of need. Zelenesky has has Europe to prove its on its side. We wait and see what happens. I hope NATO sort Putin the bully once and for all.
Is there a way to stop internet traffic from Russia, to stop their cyber wars, as we know they'll try that. Can we eliminate their ability to even send such malware over their border
No, I did not. However, you are referring to official EU documents. Most people that I know do not even read them. What is Ukrainian language policy is about is a bit different:
https : // www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/parliament-passes-ukrainian-language-bill.html
Foreign language films will have to be dubbed into Ukrainian. Only foreign language films meeting Ukrainian authorities’ quality standards or ones shown during film festivals can be subtitled, as opposed to being dubbed.
...
Under the bill, all schools and universities will be required to teach in Ukrainian.
Classes taught in ethnic minority languages will be allowed at Ukrainian-language schools, and some subjects at Ukrainian-language universities can be taught in English or one of the official languages of the European Union.
It was seen as largely pro-Ukrainian and anti-Russian in Russia (I doubt that Eastern Ukraine saw it differently but I do not know a lot of people from there). If I were in Eastern Ukraine, I would not like to be called "ethnic minority".
Yes, that plane (flight 007) was also carrying a US congressman. There was an interesting podcast with Anne Applebaum from The Atlantic about the current situation and they compared Putin to Andropov, the Soviet leader then, both had misjudged their enemy and both were remarkably isolated.
Yes, that's what happened in former Yugoslavia. Completely airborne assault to halt ethnic cleansing and mass displacement outside of NATO countries.
You really do forget how much bad blood there is between Russia and all neighbors. Apart from really Serbia and subjugated Belarus, they are universally despised from all angles..
Didnt they “accidentally” shoot down a large Korean airliner in 1983 also.
5,500 surpasses KIA for coalition forces during the entire 7 year Iraq war. In less than a week.
If that figure is anywhere near the mark, and you don't think it's affecting morale I really don't know what to tell you.
And people have levelled the charge of optimism bias at the Ukrainian side. Lord above.
Me too, sorry. I just keep thinking about the unfairness of what Putin has done and will probably get away with.
Which is why they've resorted to bombing from a distance, land forces are being decimated by western munitions. Footage of Russian soldiers looting shops indicates they're actually starving as the logistical supports can't get through.
That '40 mile attack convoy' is nothing of the sort, it's the logistical support which was meant to supply the troops occupying Kiev which is now stuck because there has been no advance
I don't know...it's getting late now and I don't think I want to consider that vista in too much detail (despite posting about it). Am just hoping for a better outcome.
Don't get me wrong, if there was no nuclear threat I think NATO should march to Moscow using conventional war methods and siege them into submission taking vast territory in any settlement but I still don't think innocent Russians should be expelled from Europe.
And how many more Russians are following in behind them, Ukraine would defeat Russia given there amazing spirit and determination if even some additional strong air support was supplied. It's just too big an ask without the west actually providing intervention. God i really hope i am wrong and they can somehow pull off a miracle but i doubt it.
Throughout the thread i have seen time and time again comments about not intervening before in this case or that case, this country or another country and why should now be any different. Well maybe its time we all as a world stand up to bullies and say enough is enough, we failed before are we going to fail yet again in Ukraine.
For those who poohpoohed the prediction that Vlad the Invader would eh, invade, just after the Winter Olympics concluded, and who have changed in tone and stance now that they had their geopolitical cop-on asses handed to them,you'll all be glad to know there's a tablet for that:-
Tyrenol
https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1498800186759516166?t=MApFc7MxtMWbEEbTFJJaMQ&s=19.
It won't improve your cop-on, it's not a supplement.
May I suggest you use a whole box, left in the box, as a suppository? Should get right to your command and control circuitry...
Radio Moscow gone off the air?
Looks pretty straight forward to me....
"“NATO should not expand eastwards either officially or unofficially” Seitz added.
The British representative also mentions the existence “general agreement” that NATO membership for Eastern European countries “unacceptable.”
“During the 2+4 negotiations, we made it clear that we would not expand NATO beyond the Elbe.” said West German diplomat Jurgen Hrobog. “That’s why we couldn’t offer Poland and others NATO membership.”
It was later revealed in the minutes that he was referring to the Oder River, the border between East Germany and Poland. Grobog also noted that West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher also agreed with this position.
The document was found in the UK National Archives by Joshua Shifrinson, professor of political science at Boston University in the US. It was noted “Secret” but at some point was declassified.
Shifrinson tweeted on Friday that he “deserved” work with Der Spiegel on a document showing that “Western diplomats thought they had really committed themselves to not expanding NATO.”
“Senior politicians deny that a non-expansion pledge was offered. This new document shows otherwise.” Shifrinson said in follow up tweet noting that “out” The Elbe or Oder by any measure includes the countries of Eastern Europe, to which NATO began to expand only eight years later."
While NATO can only defend a fellow member, are there red lines that could be crossed? Is there anything that would trigger a.."ah, fook this" moment from NATO?
To be verified...but no way 100's of vehicles destroyed. Would be a tiny fraction of that.
after what Russia/Putin did to Chechnya/Grozny and Georgia/Tbilisi and the Chechens are now dying to fight alongside this murder machine and Georgia are not sanctioning Russia like most other European countries, seems Putin does get what he wants through force, total subjugation
Even if true why do you think it will chew up morale?
Russia are sending in kids first as canon fodder.
They have their best waiting a few Kms outside Kyiv.
Sinn Fein's Chris McManus is in that group of leftie loopers as well.
That’s pretty unfair. What do you expect him to say? He said he has friends and family in Russia and Ukraine and he hopes for peace soon.
Criticizing Putin publicly while you have family there is a bold move not many are brave to make. I don’t blame them. This self censorship culture should never be allowed to develop. Journalists act the exact same over there. It’s a legitimate concern.
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