Well, it'll take a decade at least before they join, otherwise the whole EU project will fall apart with open borders with Russia. Imagine the black market alone.
Yeah while Russia slept after 1991, NATO managed to draw in most of the Eastern bloc.
Czech Republic
Hungary
Poland
Bulgaria
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Albania
Croatia
Montenegro
North Macedonia
Impressive by NATO
With their own bodies, trying to stop the invasion.
You really think EU will accept a country that has open borders with non EU countries?
He's never come out and said it, because to do so would be coming out against a non-military bloc, but the underlying problem Putin has with "the West" is the EU and not Nato. He doesn't like that it's becoming more cohesive, he doesn't like that it's culturally powerful and influential, he doesn't like its economic heft. He likes almost nothing about it because it has successfully peeled former Eastern Bloc states away from the miserable petro-kingdom of his imagination and the "new Rome" of Moscow.
Sounds like you are aptly describing some of our politicians, say Paul Murphy or Richard Boyd Barrett.
Everytime I hear the latter speak I pity poor old Jeremy Irons when he has to meet him.
And please don't come back to me saying I support this, just because I posted it.
Fairly historic moment for Russia if true. Not since the Soviet Union have both been connected by land.
I think you'll find yourself wrong on this front. The EU is kicking into high-gear now, and not before time. The world has changed over the last two weeks and Putin has let the genie out of his lamp. It won't be tomorrow or next month, but Ukraine's membership will indeed be pushed to the front of the queue, and a lot of the accession requirements will be set aside.
Where's the guy from yesterday telling me that Micheal Martin and Polish PM saying it should be fast tracked, wasn't speaking for the whole EU???? Micheal Martin doesn't have an individual thought in his brain so whatever he says about Europe, you know he has backup from the EU.
Will Ukraine joining Eu not drive putin mad and make him retilate more or nuke Eu. Hope to god talks can start and something come of them to stop this bloodbath
I have so little respect for the 'Nato caused this' point of view. When has Nato seriously f*cked with Russian security or sovereignty since the end of the Cold War? Never. It's Kremlin paranoia and just a deeply held suspicion that has ran through Russian political life for centuries manifesting itself in the mind of one man.
Even the main thing that Putin points to about Nato that sticks in his throat, the independence of Kosovo, isn't about the fact that Kosovo was created and recognised or that it threatens Russian security, it's that Russia wasn't consulted. Russia's 'great power status' was affronted by a new state and that they weren't consulted adequately. Russia has a self-esteem problem, not a Nato problem.
Anything the EU do will just be PR, which they've already given Ukraine.
EU can't accept Ukraine into the EU with contested borders.
So unless Zelenskyy said Crimea is Russian, then the application will sit on the EU desk for decades.
Ehh Norway has been in since the very start.
Part of the fallout from being invaded by Germany in 1940 and 4 years of brutal occupation.
Finland couldn't because of their treaty with Soviet Union in 1947/48 arising out of their winter war in 39/40 and continuation war in 41-44.
BTW how many people here realise that Finland fought the two biggest armies Soviet and German in WWII.
Very plucky crowd not to be messed with.
Maybe it is time they started demanding back the areas like Karelia they lost to the Soviets just to get into the Putin spirit of demanding old borders be redrawn.
Chelsea are not noted for their intellectual liberal supporters.
Joining NATO is a voluntary choice for countries. We now see why many have joined.
WMD in Iraq? That was the Bush and Blair administration, last I checked those administrations aren't in power. There was a huge backlash from many countries, including allies like France and Germany. Sorry but what the **** is this 20 year old false equivalence BS?
I think the narrative there going with is that the war was made inevitable by Nato expansion. They say the damage was already done over the last 30 years and this is the result.
Is it true? I don't know. My imaginary degree in international affairs hasn't come through yet. I'm just seeing what stories both sides are telling themselves to paint the other side as the aggressor and themselves as the hero.
They say we're the kind of alliance who would make up stories like WMD in Iraq as a pretext for invading a country. That seems to be true based on how history unfolded.
The stories both sides tell themselves down need to be true.
The longer this goes on, the more chance that the west/NATO will put in special forces that will 'blend in' with the Ukrainian army. My guess is it's already happening. But bombing that convoy 'secretly' is very difficult as Russia would be able to see the signatures of incoming missiles, planes and drones. If any of those are not 'Ukrainian', then they'll know. The west's best bet now is to basically coordinate Ukraine's response based on western intel.
No way. The fact is Ukraine is not part of NATO and populations in the west may want to do all they can to help, but very few would surely support that kind of military intervention given the consequences for them which would be massive.
We are walking a tightrope here between practical assistance and avoiding a western military confrontation with Russia.
World War 3 will start within Twitter 😂
I mean, does anyone seriously want to place a bet that Putin wouldn't move on Moldova for instance when the time was opportune?
The Moldovan government has made it clear their desire for closer EU ties, and there's already a mini Donbas puppet state there.
Who wants to take the bet that it "definitely won't happen" like we were hearing with Ukraine from certain quarters before the invasion.
Wouldn't fancy been in the first yoke.
Look after yourself. Giving to the red cross appeal might give you a feeling of having helped as much as any of us realistically can.
I've always felt the EU needed a war to have its citizens band together. It's interesting to hear Zelenskiyy speak so passionately about joining the EU and how vocal the EU and even citizens have been about 'welcoming these Ukrainians who are one of us' in in their time of need.
This is the European movement and EU finding out how to use it's gearbox finally.
The president and cabinet should scarper to the countryside- I believe they’re already spread out- my point being, if you can’t “topple” the cabinet you can’t install a new government - when will the Russians call “done” on this? When they reach the centre of the capital and storm the government buildings or something else?
Wibbs, I cannot find it now (New Boards confuses me) but you did a great post on the origins of Ukraine and it's set up in 1920 etc. I think you went on to say that Russians themselves perceive that they 'half own' Ukraine already and that it wasn't really a legitimate 'free state' in their eyes. I did hear before that Ukraine's war of independence very much mirrored the Irish one in terms of the 1917-1921 timeline and provisional government.
It was a good post anyway but can you respost it?
He seems nice
Could NATO potentially go in and bomb that convoy without the Russians knowing it was NATO
Pass it off as Ukraine planes.
I think NATO is damned if they act and damned if they don't. At what point does NATO get involved on the ground. Now in Ukraine or in a few years when Vlad eyes up another country to takeover.
NATO/EU is pretty much funding Ukraine's defense as it is, a few planes taking out some targets wouldn't be the biggest stretch.
Well, "we" The West invaded some countries a few years ago. They would probably start with that instead of the recycling, wouldn't you agree?
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